Less cheating proposal 1

PipkiN · Post by **PipkiN** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:16 am

Due to this me and krup72 announced that we could work on such a list of punishments in the case of cheating. You could maybe find this topic somewhere here. I want to battle cheaters, yes, but I do not want to lose the opportunity of not having quick trades. Why ? If I can offer to buy a good youth player, my only chance to get him is to make a deal with the owner and then make a quick trade, because everytime when there will browse a manager from higher division (=with more money), disabling quick trades will this way lead me to losing this player, because I will be overpayed. And we can say that 1/3 of transfermarket players are of czech managers. So I do not want to be disabled like this. This would fight cheaters, but also lead to a group of the richest, who will buy almost every good youths, and the rest.
We have to fight them elsewhere ..

Frrfrr · Post by **Frrfrr** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:34 am

you wrote:
"If I can offer to buy a good youth player, my only chance to get him is to make a deal with the owner and then make a quick trade, because ..."

this way you get advantage vs other people. if the guy is independent from you it is ok, he sells you cheaper, while he is stupid and you clever knowing prices.

however if you do it within country it is always question, if it is your friend selling cheaper - he is your farm - and you could be real cheater - hard to prove, but in reality yes you could be cheater.

and how to face it? still 70% you may do as you did ...
and the game forces you to search for other strategies how to acquire good players, which are even better then this one!

I am not to list them, but be sure there are still many, even if there is no fast tranfer at all!

if you really stick mostly to fast transfers within country, then yes ... i am sorry, but you in my view potential cheater ... exactly, my proposal is to fight this behaviour

PipkiN · Post by **PipkiN** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:43 am

I am not a cheater, man

After all this, you forgot one basic thing: you don't have to have "farms" in your own country only.. You can easily have friend abroad and the whole idea of disabling quick transfers is gone. Almost everyone has friends abroad, so it is easy after your disabling to write him "hey man, look at SP website, start a team there and tell also Jihn and Jim to start their teams. You don't have to do much, just after some time we will be making transfers to my team, huh? You can really help me this, I am disappointed by losing almost every match".
I say NO again.

Frrfrr · Post by **Frrfrr** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:09 am

lol, yes you not cheater i never said you are, you are only potential one, that is huge difference

and yes you are right, you may agree this "abroad" cheating, but it is much much much more complicated.

and even if you are able to develope "international cheating network" then
1. you are under risk you finally get reported by other party if you successfull and reaching better leagues, what could hurt you drastically after so much effort developing it
2. additionally, if sheriffs have less work they may search such sofisticated cases

PipkiN · Post by **PipkiN** » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:53 am

It is nice to discuss, but no one else enters the discussion, so we can write to ourselves whatever, but no one else shows his opinion

Frrfrr · Post by **Frrfrr** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 12:40 am

this issue starts to have big size ...

in very few seasons cheaters will spread and dominate in all leagues ... only question of time ...

but seems they should reach A league ... whatever ... let them have it

i am sorry, but i have bad mood ... realising it ... just i understood i should think about better in game strategy then cheating ... and it is pretty hard

kolarma1 · Post by **kolarma1** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:46 am

Pipkin,
Your reference to 17th of November makes no sense. Your suggestion distorts the market even worse than banning the fast transfers altogether. What you are proposing would increase prices of players from the Czech Republic versus players from other countries. This would distort the transfer market in a major way (you were concerned about a functioning market right?). I am for banning fast transfers completely. Just get rid of the "accept" trade button. If you want to get a player quickly you still can. Just bid a large sum of money on a player that has been on the market for 6 days and you will get him in less than 2 days. Do any real world soccer trasfers happen quicker than that?

Red_Army_Squad · Post by **Red_Army_Squad** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:18 pm

I think adding the option where you can´t make fast transfers is a really good thing for the game, but I also understand Pipkin.
There are managers, mostly from low divisions who contact the manager who is selling a player they want and ask him if he could sell that player for pretty low price. If that manager sells the player, you could call this cheating.
I have done this I think 2 times when I just started. And one time I traded a player with another manager, both players weren´t that good so I don´t think there´s a problem with this. BTW I never have bought a player from a manager from the same country as me. But I understand that managers with not a lot of money try to buy a player fast because they know that if they won´t do this, managers with more money will buy those players.
But if you remove this possibility of instant transfers, it will be a big disadvantage for the low ranked teams, because they don´t have much money.
This is a really complicated issue that is hard to solve without disadvataging some managers. I think that letting the player on the TL for at least 5 days is a good thing. But after these 5 days I think fast transfers should be allowed!

I hope my reaction makes sense, bacause I couldn´t really write it down better

PipkiN · Post by **PipkiN** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 2:01 pm

After all I come with an idea ... Managers, who are against quick transfers, suffered this: they had a bid on a player, but then someone came, made bigger bid and the player was gone ... I understand your complains but then try to find other player or try to make a deal on quick trade with the manager. Everyone can do it. Prohibiting this because you are not successful ? Crazy.

Just like real football. Juventus says to Arsenal "We will buy Rosický for 50M €" but then comes Real Madrid, puts 75M € on the table and says "Let's make a deal on his trade to our club" Will Arsenal be waiting to answer from Juve ? No, because it is business, big business. Same as soccerproject. If you aren't successful in your club's business, you wouldn't be able to buy that player you want ..

Red_Army_Squad · Post by **Red_Army_Squad** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:05 pm

I think the whole point still is that managers from the same countries can help eachother. I think when a manager from, for example, England and The Netherlands ask a manager for The Netherlands whether they can buy player X. The manager will sell his player to the manager from his own country and not to the manager from England.
And the example you gave with Real and Juventus might be true, but it still isn't fair. So I still am of the opinion that the days which a player remains on the TL must go up to 5-6 and then another 2 days in which he can be sold!

PS. Pipkin are you ok with my avatar now?

PipkiN · Post by **PipkiN** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:16 pm

Life isn't fair ...

Btw, the avatar is still too wide, use 150px man

Paul_G · Post by **Paul_G** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:08 pm

Any kind of penalty on someone because they're from a certain country is completely unfair. Country of origin should have no bearing on gameplay.

I agree with guys like Kolarma (And not just because we're from the same country

). If it was up to me, I'd get rid of fast transfers altogether. All the other stuff aside, I find these constant E-mails, when I'm selling a good player, to be annoying. In fact, I've got a 26 year old CB rated at an 89 on the transfer market right now. I opened my mail today and had 8 messages telling me to sell him today, or immediately. I'm like, "Piss Off! ". Those guys are no better than spammers in my opinion.

I'd institute some rules like this:

1. Get rid of fast transfers in the sense that we have them now.

2. Make it so that a selling team can see what the offers are, but not who is making them.

3. Make it so a buying team can see the available players, but can't contact the seller.

4. Add a 'Buy it Now' price, like they have on E-Bay. Someone who pays this price gets the player immediately. Now, to prevent cheating on this we can use some kind of formula, based on the players age, position, and GR, that would set a minimum value that this price can be.

Or if we don't want to make sweeping changes like that, we could just allow the buyer to rescind an offer if the seller doesn't accept it within 24 hours. Because otherwise there is no reason why an owner shouldn't hang onto a player... I don't think there is any legitimate reason why a seller should agree to a fast transfer, the way the rules are set right now. Why sell the guy? It's not like the top offer is going to go down.

In general I don't think cheating at the top levels is as bad as all that, or if it is then the cheaters are really bad and immature players. I'm completely unconnected, and while I am languishing in D it's only because I'm being stupid and selling my players before they hit their prime years of 27-29. Maybe I'm naive, but I think the situation right now is such that a good player can still make it to A without being in a 'guild'.

kennyanu · Post by **kennyanu** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:43 am

i disagree with this rule.....i often make trades with managers....the nationality is not important to me...i give a player and some money...that they give me a player....

fast transfer i very good thing because..on a sunday i had one GK suspended and one injured....i talked to a manager who had a GK on the transfer list...i payed some money and i had a GK for the monday game.

i think that forumula is preety good because there are managers who make H-teams...and are selling a certain player for the sum of 3milion(they are making loans) aproximetly to that H-team.

Paul_G · Post by **Paul_G** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:45 pm

kennyanu wrote:i disagree with this rule.....i often make trades with managers....the nationality is not important to me...i give a player and some money...that they give me a player...

Then there should be something in the code that specifically handles trades. It shouldn't be done through the open transfer market. It's way too easy to abuse it.

rood · Post by **rood** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 7:56 pm

Good point Paul. The other guys have their point too. Despite the cheaters, an instant transfer has it’s own charm, and sometimes we need them…like kennyanu just said. Why don’t we try a middle solution to solve the problem so we’ll avoid the extremes.
They can limit the instant transfers at…lets say 10 per season….5 buys and 5 sells.
And speaking about limitations, I was reading a post the other week where people were talking about inflation and sky rocket prices on the transfer market. Like in the real life, if the money circulate a lot and fast the inflation is high. At least that’s what the economists say. And here, let me tell ya folks, the money are moving fast and plenty of them.
So…it’s just an idea, don’t jump on me…a limit in the number of transfers per season will do the job. I’m not sure but I think that 100 of buys and sells per season (all together) will be just enough comparing to 100 sells and 100 buys.
Even if someone wants to change the entire team (sell the entire team, that’s 40 sells….buy an entire team that’s 40 buys) it means 80 transfers per season. You still have another 20 moves (transfers) to get rid of some unwanted players and do some business.
I think the performance of most of the teams will improve this way. The buyers will think twice before they would make an offer, and the sellers will sell not just to have a big budget, …they will sell when a sell is needed.
And as the time will pass, the so called “farms” will disappear, slowly.

I did like the topic. Thank you Frrfrr!!!

regards