Influence of new trainer should depend on performance

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sljivovica
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Influence of new trainer should depend on performance

Post by sljivovica » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:58 am

In this case, the example is that S.A.T fired his trainer and hired a new one, the day before the Cup-final.
It gave him the victory, and I know some other people have had great results using the same trick in the SP-Cup.

But it feels wrong....

It should be a moral blow to the team when a very succesful coach gets fired.
The moral boost should be there when the TS is low or the team very low in the ranking and out of the Cup.
When a team does well, it simply feels wrong to fire the coach :?

I think this should be changed...
No disrespect to the SAT-manager, becasue he did it fantastic, but I see this as a flaw in SP...
FC Wageningen
S2: started in E.34
S13 - S19..: B.2
S20..: A!! (12th)
S21 - S22: B.2
S23..: A!! (15e)
S24-26: B.2 (12e)
S27 & onwards: C-division and lower.
Currently (S41): E.45

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hannibal
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Post by hannibal » Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:19 am

I agree. Although it's a nice trick, and well played by S.A.T, it's clearly not in touch with reality.
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Woko
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Post by Woko » Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:57 am

It should be dependent on form and teamspirit...
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zandyy
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Post by zandyy » Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:55 pm

I agree.

As to making this a practical solution, I suggest the following:

Scenarios:
• Replacing a coach will have a positive effect when the team is in relegation zone (positions 11-16 in the League) AND out of the SP Cup.
• Replacing the coach will have a negative effect when the team is in promotion zone (positions 1-2 in the League) AND in the SP Cup.
• Replacing the coach will have no effect otherwise.

Effects:
• A positive effect will be like it is now – all players go to 100% morale.
• A negative effect will be similar to moving players to the transfer list – all players lose 25% of their morale.
• The current time lapse requirement of keeping at least a full season between replacements of coaches will be cancelled, as it will no longer be relevant.

Any thoughts?

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cruxify
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Post by cruxify » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:20 pm

Zandy pretty much hit the nail on the coffin.

It's a good idea. Not practical at all, it's like firing your coach just before the CL final, or firing just before the World Cup final.

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SBroccoli
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Post by SBroccoli » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:01 pm

zandyy wrote: • Replacing the coach will have a negative effect when the team is in promotion zone (positions 1-2 in the League) AND in the SP Cup.
I think that should be an OR?
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Post by zandyy » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:18 pm

SBroccoli wrote:
zandyy wrote: • Replacing the coach will have a negative effect when the team is in promotion zone (positions 1-2 in the League) AND in the SP Cup.
I think that should be an OR?
I agree. OR then.
Werder_fan wrote:[zandyy wrote:]
• A positive effect will be like it is now – all players go to 100% morale.
[/zandy wrote:]

I think a player with,say 20 moral,can't go to 100% even if the manager changes the coach.
Well, that’s how it is now, and I think it’s the way it should remain in the future, under the new conditions. It makes sense all players go up to 100% when a coach is sacked at a time when the club is on the rocks.

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Zé da Silva
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Post by Zé da Silva » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:35 pm

Actually players gain only 10 morale points and only when you hire a new coach.
And players don't necessarily lose 25 morale points when placed in the transfer list (example).

This doesn't actually refer to the issue at hand, but I just thought I could make a few corrections.

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Post by zandyy » Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:39 pm

Zé da Silva wrote:Actually players gain only 10 morale points.
Thanks for correcting me Zé. I’m pretty sure it used to be that all players go to 100% morale, but this may have been changed when the rule of a full season lapse between coach changes was installed, a couple of seasons back. I think it should be changed back to 100% if the new rules suggested here are accepted: it makes more sense that everyone gets really optimistic, regardless of their previous state of mind, when a failed coach is replaced by a new one.
Zé da Silva wrote:And players don't necessarily lose 25 morale points when placed in the transfer list.


I’m aware of that. What I meant was that the effect should be the same as being put on the transfer-list, whatever that effect is. When morale is bellow 50, it goes up; the logic behind this is that a player is happy to be transferred when he doesn’t play much and his morale is low, and similarly he should be happier when a good coach was sacked because the new coach might let him play more.

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sljivovica
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Post by sljivovica » Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:50 pm

Yeah Zandy, i like the way you proposed it.
FC Wageningen
S2: started in E.34
S13 - S19..: B.2
S20..: A!! (12th)
S21 - S22: B.2
S23..: A!! (15e)
S24-26: B.2 (12e)
S27 & onwards: C-division and lower.
Currently (S41): E.45

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Isis
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Post by Isis » Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:50 pm

Players'morale is up with 10 points. It has been like that forever. Most of the time you do this because you want them to be a 100. But a player that was 80 before will only be 90 afterwards (and this has been like this since the beginning).

If you change things this way, I think you should definitely keep the time limit. Suppose a team in relegation zone changes his coach every few days. Don't think that is really fair.

Now that I think of it: your proposal makes sense, but it is not fair at all. Changing the coach makes a huge difference in ratings sometimes. Is it fair to limit that possibility to only a few teams per division? Or wouldn't it encourage managers to leave the Cup for what it is (even more than they do now)?

Maybe we can change the coach rule but not the way you put it ;-)

PS Also noppp changed his coach :-)

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sljivovica
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Post by sljivovica » Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:23 pm

Yeah, the time-limit should stay in, I think that should be enough.
But firing your coach when you're in 1st or 2nd place, or far in the Cup should be punished and not rewarded.
FC Wageningen
S2: started in E.34
S13 - S19..: B.2
S20..: A!! (12th)
S21 - S22: B.2
S23..: A!! (15e)
S24-26: B.2 (12e)
S27 & onwards: C-division and lower.
Currently (S41): E.45

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el stino
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Post by el stino » Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:53 pm

sljivovica wrote:Yeah, the time-limit should stay in, I think that should be enough.
But firing your coach when you're in 1st or 2nd place, or far in the Cup should be punished and not rewarded.
why?
I think you can understand a same situation in 2 possible ways.

for example:
1) nice, my coach is the best and that's why I'm in the promotion-zone.
or
2) my coach is good, but my team can do better if I take a new coach.

I hope you understand wath I'm trying to say :P
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sljivovica
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Post by sljivovica » Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:42 pm

Yeah, I understand, and it happened to Mourinho last year... still, it doesn't really make sense now, does it?
FC Wageningen
S2: started in E.34
S13 - S19..: B.2
S20..: A!! (12th)
S21 - S22: B.2
S23..: A!! (15e)
S24-26: B.2 (12e)
S27 & onwards: C-division and lower.
Currently (S41): E.45

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cruxify
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Post by cruxify » Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:39 am

el stino wrote:
sljivovica wrote:Yeah, the time-limit should stay in, I think that should be enough.
But firing your coach when you're in 1st or 2nd place, or far in the Cup should be punished and not rewarded.
why?
I think you can understand a same situation in 2 possible ways.

for example:
1) nice, my coach is the best and that's why I'm in the promotion-zone.
or
2) my coach is good, but my team can do better if I take a new coach.

I hope you understand wath I'm trying to say :P
Regarding your first point, that would upset the players, not make them happy. If you have a coach that is good enough to get you to the final, why would you be happy if he was fired a day before the game? You wouldn't. And in rl if it happened the players would be questioning the board for such an idiotic move.

For your second point, I don't see how that would work a day before a cup final. Your players wouldn't really have time to adapt to the coaches new style of football and his ideas, and they would still be upset that their previous coach was fired, particularly if they had a good working relationship with that coach.

Mourinho being fired from Chelsea had a negative effect on some of the players. If you remember correctly, Drogba was considering leaving because Jose wasn't around. It lowered his morale, not increase it.

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