man-covering

quasimoto · Post by **quasimoto** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:51 pm

I don't know if it's already mentioned, I'm new here.

In real soccer the trainer can give a defender the task to cover a good player of the other team.

Is it possible in this play?

If not, it would be a nice feature that is easy implemented in individual tactics? For example:

you can give your RB or CB or SW or LB the task to cover the LF or CF or RF of the other team and as result:
the defensive contribution of this player to the total defense of your team is lowered, but the attacking contribution of this attacker you pointed to of the other team is also lowered.

The degree of lowering the attacking contribution of the player depends on how good your defender is.
For example:
A very good defender should be able to play out a not skilled attacker.
A bad defender will only be able to lower the attacking contribution of the attacker a little bit. But a bad defender will have effect.

I don't know how you calculate the defensive and attacking contribution of players during matches. But it should be possible to work something out, so it would be effective and comparible to real play.

Also, if you set your CB to man-cover the CF of the other team, but the other team doesn't play with a CF, this individual tactic for your CB is automatically set for the match to normal then.

Also, you can put more than 1 defender to cover an attacker, for example, a RB and a SW to cover the LF. So the attacking contribution of the player would be more lowered.

Just a thought to make the play more realistic.
It also gives the position of SW more sense.

matt · Post by **matt** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 9:52 pm

I am in favor of this proposal but I doubt it will be easy to implement this in the matchengine. But if it was possible, it would give more value tactically to the game.

Blue · Post by **Blue** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:28 pm

matt wrote:I am in favor of this proposal but I doubt it will be easy to implement this in the matchengine. But if it was possible, it would give more value tactically to the game.

It could work like this: The defender could have an extra skill, call it marking. This skill determines how good they are at marking any given player. When they mark another player, the other player's match performance is reduced by a certain amount. For example;

Defender A marks Striker B.

If Defender A's marking skill is 20% then Striker B's match rating will be 2% lower.

If Defender A's marking skill is 50% then Striker B's match rating will be 5% lower.

etc...

What do you think?

Benjamin · Post by **Benjamin** » Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:42 pm

I love this idea... But it must be worked out better

Nistelrooy_10 · Post by **Nistelrooy_10** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:38 am

so there will be advantages for defender, but for those who have their strenght in the attack will lose with this.....

Blue · Post by **Blue** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:42 am

Nistelrooy_10 wrote:so there will be advantages for defender, but for those who have their strenght in the attack will lose with this.....

That's the point. It's as it happens in the real world

matt · Post by **matt** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 2:55 pm

Blue wrote:
matt wrote:I am in favor of this proposal but I doubt it will be easy to implement this in the matchengine. But if it was possible, it would give more value tactically to the game.
It could work like this: The defender could have an extra skill, call it marking. This skill determines how good they are at marking any given player. When they mark another player, the other player's match performance is reduced by a certain amount. For example;

Defender A marks Striker B.

If Defender A's marking skill is 20% then Striker B's match rating will be 2% lower.

If Defender A's marking skill is 50% then Striker B's match rating will be 5% lower.

etc...

What do you think?

I 'm afraid that will be quite difficult. If I understand correctly you want to create an extra skill which has absolutely nothing to do with the global rating of a player but everything with the involvement in a match. To me that seems like it doesn't make sense.

Plus, Sjarel would have to give all the existing defenders a marking skill like that too, which wouldn't be fair towards the managers.

I believe that IF it would be implemented, one should have to search for a balance between skills from the defender and the opponent striker that have some importance in man covering. Skills they both have too. For example: If strength and speed of the defender are better than the striker, the covering works and the striker loses a lot of performance, if both are worse it fails totally and the defender loses performance, if there's some kind of draw, nothing happens.
I would like to see it as an added individual order and because it would then be to much advantage for the defending manager, I would make it fail every time it's used on a striker who has a free role.

That's my vision on the thing.

Blue · Post by **Blue** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:40 pm

matt wrote:If I understand correctly you want to create an extra skill which has absolutely nothing to do with the global rating of a player but everything with the involvement in a match.

No, I'm saying a skill which has everything to do with the global rating of a player. One of the most important skills a player can have is man to man marking, so it affects their rating as a defender enormously.

And aren't all of the skills to do with the player's involvement in the match?

matt wrote:Plus, Sjarel would have to give all the existing defenders a marking skill like that too, which wouldn't be fair towards the managers.

I believe that IF it would be implemented, one should have to search for a balance between skills from the defender and the opponent striker that have some importance in man covering. Skills they both have too. For example: If strength and speed of the defender are better than the striker, the covering works and the striker loses a lot of performance, if both are worse it fails totally and the defender loses performance, if there's some kind of draw, nothing happens.
I would like to see it as an added individual order and because it would then be to much advantage for the defending manager, I would make it fail every time it's used on a striker who has a free role.

That's my vision on the thing.

I think this idea is better though

matt · Post by **matt** » Sat Oct 01, 2005 6:58 pm

Blue wrote:
matt wrote:If I understand correctly you want to create an extra skill which has absolutely nothing to do with the global rating of a player but everything with the involvement in a match.
No, I'm saying a skill which has everything to do with the global rating of a player. One of the most important skills a player can have is man to man marking, so it affects their rating as a defender enormously.

And aren't all of the skills to do with the player's involvement in the match?

Yeah but I was suggesting that if the skill wasn't included in the global rating and still had importance it would be strange.

Either way, if you want to include it there would be an even bigger problem because what would you do with the players that already exist?
Give them a new skill and recalculate there rating? It would be a major adaption, anyway.

Blue · Post by **Blue** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:42 am

matt wrote: Yeah but I was suggesting that if the skill wasn't included in the global rating and still had importance it would be strange.

Either way, if you want to include it there would be an even bigger problem because what would you do with the players that already exist?
Give them a new skill and recalculate there rating? It would be a major adaption, anyway.

So, lets start over. Instead, take into account skills that they already have that would be important to marking (strength, stamina, speed, experience) and use these to calculate a temporary value during the match. Use this to enforce the marking. Creating a temporary calculated variable would be easier to implement because rather than adding new code here and there it could be done in a handful of lines in the match engine.

quasimoto · Post by **quasimoto** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 8:47 pm

I don't think it would be hard to implement it, but maybe it will give some overhead to the engine. I like the idea of Blue:

at individual tactics, you add an individual order, say "marking":

and marking means
RB marks LF
CB marks CF
SW marks CF
CB marks CF
LB marks RF

I would also work with a temporary variable called marking skill
that would be calculated as
marking skill = (experience*3 + stamina + speed*2 + tackling + heading + strength*2)/10

if this individual order would be selected, you should lower the defense the same as you do for other individual orders?
but also lower the match rating of the striker who is marked during the match.

How higher the marking skill, how more the match rating of the striker will be lowered..

Like Blue:
If Defender A's marking skill is 20% then Striker B's match rating will be 2% lower.

If Defender A's marking skill is 50% then Striker B's match rating will be 5% lower.

would be nice.. maybe lowering even more.

ezzyezzy · Post by **ezzyezzy** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 9:26 pm

guyz the idea is good, but dont you think that its come back to the same point in the end...eg. team a vs team b, team A defense mark team b striker and vice versa so it will come back to the same point...whoever has the best global rating will conquer the game.so if you said concentrate on certain skill to mark the striker.its still the same cos higher global rating consists of higher individual skill. unless SP. make all the changes on the player which unlikely cos we have a lot of player in SP.in general it will have a lot lot of work to be done....unless someone has a way to make the changes easier.....but still i like the idea to mark certain striker especially goal topscorer