SPMT/Normal game Integration

Nasko · Post by **Nasko** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:09 pm

cercel_jr wrote:I have a very good PC (I played NFSMW and F.E.A.R. on it).

With SPMT there is something else that should be installed, I think it's called "dot framework" and it gives me a windows error...

SPMT has no hardware requirements. Just download the .NetFramewok 1.1 (or higher) from Microsoft.com

Dark Tiger · Post by **Dark Tiger** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:20 pm

modes98's revenge wrote:It's there for everyone to download, there doesn't seem the need to put it in the game.

Not all can download it and I've had to ask other managers for advise on some items because I can't download it.

Paul_G · Post by **Paul_G** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:52 pm

modes98's revenge wrote:SPMT is an add-on to help you "manage it" (god i hate that slogan)

A slight point that it is known to all the community not 1/3. The fact that they can't run it isn't important thats an issue for them to get around. Same with the firefox training issue, either use a different browser or don't worry about it.

SPMT enhances the options available to managers, it doesn't give them any advantage in the game in theory, a good manager is a good manager...

Do you think that knowing the hidden skill of a youth player doesn't give you a tangible advantage over someone who doesn't?

If we were in agreement about what constituted an "add-on", then yes, I wouldn't have a problem. But what SPMT does is way beyond my definition of what an add-on does.

What I think of as an add-on is something like SPFA, where it'll store a couple of lineups for you to save some time, maybe add a couple of other features that are *strictly* convieniences, nothing more. There is nothing that SPFA gives you that will directly make your team more money or cause you to win games.

SPMT, on the other hand, tells you things like price settings and salary offers. These things directly make money for your team without you having to exhibit any pretense of skill, or strategic thinking. I always considered this to be a cheat, but a tolerable one, because you make most of your money off of dealing players and advertising.

It also tells you formations and individual strategies, which is worse. This directly makes your team perform better on the field. A clueless owner using SPMT can utilize this tool and beat a average owner consistently. A guy on the other thread about this said he used SPMT to get individual strategies, since he felt there was no other way to work out which one to use. He didn't know this was covered pretty well in the rules because he'd never needed to bother looking for it. And he's right... why should he if the best choices are given to him?

But what made me start my crusade here was the hidden skill part. The designers of this game made the skill hidden for a reason.. obviously because they thought having this made the game better, and I agree. This program reveals it, which is directly against how the game was designed. Knowing this skill gives an SPMT user an obvious advantage in the transfer market over someone who doesn't use SPMT. Maybe it's just me, but that goes over the line. That's cheating territory.

I don't like the other areas of SPMT, but I'd be satisfied if the SP developers set up GR so that it wasn't influenced by the hidden skill. How hard could that be? And if that was done, no one would know the value and at least the transfer market and player development, the most important areas of the game, would be fair for everyone.

So yes, if it was just convieniences like Firefox then everything would be gravy. But that's not my problem... in my view SPMT lets users circumvent most of the strategy of the game and gives them a huge edge.

cercel_jr · Post by **cercel_jr** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:29 am

Nasko wrote:
cercel_jr wrote:I have a very good PC (I played NFSMW and F.E.A.R. on it).

With SPMT there is something else that should be installed, I think it's called "dot framework" and it gives me a windows error...
SPMT has no hardware requirements. Just download the .NetFramewok 1.1 (or higher) from Microsoft.com

I can't install the .net Framework from Microsoft.
That's my problem. When I try to install, windows gives me an error that says something like : "Cannot be installed because other thing installed..."
If I try to install SPMT it says: "Can't install without .net Framework".

Nasko · Post by **Nasko** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:23 pm

cercel_jr wrote:
I can't install the .net Framework from Microsoft.
That's my problem. When I try to install, windows gives me an error that says something like : "Cannot be installed because other thing installed..."
If I try to install SPMT it says: "Can't install without .net Framework".

Can you tell me what is that thing?

robborover · Post by **robborover** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:43 pm

Paul_G wrote:Do you think that knowing the hidden skill of a youth player doesn't give you a tangible advantage over someone who doesn't?

Not really because they can still turn out to be rubbish!

The tool only collects information and data from the past. It doesn't tell you anything that you couldn't work out for yourself.

I can't install SPMT at work because the firewall blocks it's access, but it doesn't harm my chances of doing well.

Paul_G · Post by **Paul_G** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:55 pm

robborover wrote:Not really because they can still turn out to be rubbish!

They sure can, and I've got some very good players on my team who probably have a crappy hidden skill. No one skill determines the entire talent level of a player.

But all that aside, players with a high hidden skill are more likely to turn out good, aren't they? There's no questioning that. Just like a midfielder with a high playmaking skill is more likely to turn out good than a midfielder with a low playmaking skill, even though it's not always going to work out that way. There's the advantage.

You see it all the time on the transfer market, where someone will train a young defender only in tackling, and he'll have a tackling of 98 and everything else will be below 20. That defender will command a lot more money than other young players, based only on the value of one skill. I don't see how the hidden skill has any less influence than that.

sljivovica · Post by **sljivovica** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:43 pm

Just about the hidden skill:

1 or 2 guys on the Dutch forum have made a web-based excel-thingy that calculates the hidden skill, for those who can't run SPMT.

This would make the biggest advantage of SPMT available for every-one.

I'll see if I can find it somewhere...

sljivovica · Post by **sljivovica** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 9:53 pm

Got it

http://www.freewebs.com/badbuffalo7/Ver ... kening.xls

Looks like Badbuffalo made it

And here's a calculator for the minimum and maximum rating a youthplayer can get:

http://www.freewebs.com/badbuffalo7/Minimum_maximum.xls

Some translations, i'll skip the obvious ones like "moraal":

Ervaring = Experience
Conditie = Stamina
Snelheid = Speed

Hoofskill = Main Skill

Momentele GK = Global Rating at this time
Verborgen Skill = Hidde Skill

Comment: enter B3-B14 yourself. May be a few percents off compared to SPMT.

Badbuffalo · Post by **Badbuffalo** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:08 pm

sljivovica wrote:Got it

http://www.freewebs.com/badbuffalo7/Ver ... kening.xls

Looks like Badbuffalo made it

And here's a calculator for the minimum and maximum rating a youthplayer can get:

http://www.freewebs.com/badbuffalo7/Minimum_maximum.xls

Some translations, i'll skip the obvious ones like "moraal":

Ervaring = Experience
Conditie = Stamina
Snelheid = Speed

Hoofskill = Main Skill

Momentele GK = Global Rating at this time
Verborgen Skill = Hidde Skill

Comment: enter B3-B14 yourself. May be a few percents off compared to SPMT.

Looks like Badbuffalo is offering it, surely that Silverblast has made it!

Just want you to know who to thank

Blue · Post by **Blue** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 8:28 am

It'd be nice if I could change the skill names into english...

robborover · Post by **robborover** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 1:07 pm

Blue wrote:It'd be nice if I could change the skill names into english...

yeah translate it and then case closed

Paul_G · Post by **Paul_G** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:20 pm

It works fine for me.. thanks!

Hopefully Silverblast checks these English forums to know that I appreciate it because I don't speak any Dutch.

So I'm happy enough with this from a personal perspective, but I hope the point I was trying to make to the developers doesn't get lost... if nearly everyone is going to have a 3rd party tool that calculates the hidden skill, then that hidden skill is broken and there isn't much point in hiding it at all.

Likewise we should still make sure that the options provided in SPMT don't cross over from 'convienient' into, 'playing the game for you' IMO.

Incidentally, I've been checking my roster and all of my top players ( GR 85-88 ) have a hidden skill in the 90's. It's a small sample size, but the value does indeed seem to matter. Also I have one young player with a skill of 69, so the statement that the skill only ranges from 70-100 doesn't look like it's true.

matt · Post by **matt** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 2:53 pm

It is around that, rounded up 70-100

And sure, my brother also reads the English forums.

And I know that you make a very good point, but it still didn't change my point of view.

Nothing is kept a secret, the SPMT is there for everyone to reach and the initiative is left to the managers. And indeed, in some obscure way there's the excel alternative for people who aren't able to run SPMT. I and a lot of others, I guess, sure would like that to become a bit more known in SP world.

And indeed, SP gives the advantage, but only in speed. There's nothing in it you're not able to discover yourself. Things like ideal prices are just a matter of experience, which the makers of SPMT liked to share. Share with everyone btw, not just with the actual third that's using it now.
There is the redirection to the hidden skill that could be a little bit more specific in the rules, that's where I really find that you're spot on, but there's nothing that keeps the managers to visit this forum or explore SP world and discover SPMT, is there?

robborover · Post by **robborover** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 3:04 pm

matt wrote:but there's nothing that keeps the managers to visit this forum or explore SP world and discover SPMT, is there?

Exactly!

The hidden skill is another headskill like shooting is for strikers. It's to make players more random. So you can have high skills but a low hidden skill and vice-versa.

Therefore, it helps to have high hidden skill, but it doesn't always make a player rubbish if he has better all-round skills instead.