SPMT/Normal game Integration

[Paul_G]

This deserves its own topic IMO.

I would like to see something done, as soon as possible, that will ensure that people who don't have SPMT are privy to the same information that people who do use SPMT are privy to. Certain information, like player skills and financial advice, should be available to everyone here, not just one group of players.

SPMT and the normal version of the game need to be integrated.

1. The hidden skill should be visible to everyone. It's a skill that never changes throughout a players career, and as such is very useful to know when bidding on an untrained player. I know the value was originally hidden for a reason, and I agree that it does make the game better. But since half the community already has access to this value, we may as well make the playing field level for everyone. Anything else just isn't right.

2. The game should have a financial assistant. When negotiating with a player or determining what ticket prices should be, you should have a financial assistant that will give you a recommended price or contract offer. It doesn't have to be exact, but something in the ballpark. Maybe the accuracy of their recommendation can be based upon their skill. This should apply to everything that SPMT gives advice on.

Assistants aren't new to the game, and seriously... we're going to all these efforts to protect new players from bankrupting themselves, but the tool that is probably giving the most accurate advice on finances generally won't be known about by new players. And even if we know about SPMT, it won't run on everyone's PC.

[krcgenk]

After some thinking about that other topic. Maybe the hidden skill should be viewable for SPFA-members. I know the idea of the developers is that, SPFA may not give an advantage to the game itself. But maybe that should be the same for SPMT?

[Paul_G]

After some thinking about that other topic. Maybe the hidden skill should be viewable for SPFA-members. I know the idea of the developers is that, SPFA may not give an advantage to the game itself. But maybe that should be the same for SPMT?

I'd be fine with that. The other stuff, the financial stuff within SPMT, doesn't bother me nearly as much as the hidden skill thing, because:

1. The hidden skill, according to the game designers, is supposed to be hidden. If it isn't hidden to everyone, then what's the point?

2. Unlike finances (which bother me a little bit, too, to be honest), with hidden skill you're getting an advantage in which players to bid on and extra knowledge of player potential. To me, that crosses the line.

To be honest, I'd rather the team unhook the hidden skill from the global rating so that NO-ONE knows what it is. I feel it's an edge to know this value, and I'm not asking the team to give me any unfair edge because I'm an SPFA member. If only 1 person out of 21,000 couldn't view it, and everyone else could, I would still regard it as just as unfair.

Whatever route is taken, I'd like to see something. As I said, my subscription expires soon, and if this isn't addressed in some way then I'm not sticking around once it does. I've enjoyed my time here very much, but I can't see the point in continuing to pay for and play a game in which I'm not on a level playing field with 33% of the community. Especially since a lot of that 33% haven't supported SP with their money like I have.

Thanks for keeping an open mind towards my opinion on this, KRC. I'd probably have been a lot more outraged if I had run into a wall of denial.

[modes98's revenge]

It's there for everyone to download, there doesn't seem the need to put it in the game.

[Paul_G]

It's there for everyone to download, there doesn't seem the need to put it in the game.

SPMT doesn't work on everyone's PC. Also, I'd guess that most new players don't even know about it.

[cercel_jr]

I totally agree with you Paul_G.
For example SPMT doesn't work on my PC, and I heard about this tool after 1 and a half season from begining this game.

I think this tool should be stoped if not everybody can use it.
It is practically not fair for all managers.

Why do you say "can you manage it" if some of the managers have this very helpfull tool.
I'm in my 4th season in SP and I managed to survive and promote without any help from SPMT. This SPMT tells you about everything that managers should discover by themselves(for ex.: ticket price, all about stadium, team selection and other's -> I don't know all... ) .
This SPMT makes me wonder if my opponent has the SPMT and so he is allready in advantage.

I really don't think this game is fair for all managers.
And another important thing: I'm not the only one!!!

[krcgenk]

Why do you say "can you manage it" if some of the managers have this very helpfull tool.
I'm in my 4th season in SP and I managed to survive and promote without any help from SPMT. This SPMT tells you about everything that managers should discover by themselves(for ex.: ticket price, all about stadium, team selection and other's -> I don't know all... ) .
This SPMT makes me wonder if my opponent has the SPMT and so he is allready in advantage.

SPMT has to stay online, that's for sure. It's helpful for beginning managers, but even without SPMT you can play this game. I don't know the exact date, but I think SPMT was available (officialy) somewhere around the beginning of season 5. So many managers, including me, started playing SP without the help of any tool. We also discovered everything ourself. And the only reason why I use it now are the player's skills (with hidden skill). The other tools I almost never use.

[Paul_G]

It has to stay online because if it's banned, it will just go underground. That's why I advocate changes to the game here at SP to make us all equal, instead of banning or changing SPMT.

I don't think it's helpful to beginning managers. I bet out of the 7,000 managers who use it, most of them are veterans... a lot of the beginners are just trying to figure out the basics of the game and aren't going to be looking for that kind of software at first.

And the beginners who do use it aren't gonna be helped, because they aren't going to learn any of the nuances of the game. Why should they bother? After all, the work is all done for them.

A guy could logon to SP for the first time and within an hour, be able to manage his team as well as any manager in the game by relying exclusively on this tool. It takes away a lot of the competitiveness of the game.

[cercel_jr]

Why did you released this tool SPMT?
My only answer is that this tool helps managers see the game more easy and so stay longer and play this game.
I think that the ideal of this game is to have more and more players playing this game, and not the fact that the game should be equal for all.

Ok. Maybe you use the tool for what you said(your bussines) but I dont think that all the managers that have SPMT working, use it only for this.
I also want to know what ticket price to have on the next game, I also want to know what offers to make and what salary to give to my players, lot's of things that without SPMT are a matter of luck.

I think that the number of managers that use SPMT is much more higher than the no. of managers that don't use the SPMT, and so you are ok with this because you make them stay and play this game for a longperiod.

PS.: If I'm telling the true gest tell me and I will live with it. I will play gest like I'm doing it now but at least I will not stress myself with things like this.

[TheDemper]

hmmz and I thought I had the most crappy computer of all the SP managers,

still SPMT works fine for me..

so quick question why doesn't SPMT work for you what errors do you get and such....

[Paul_G]

Well, in my case I have a decent machine. I had the old version of SPMT and it worked OK. But I don't think it uninstalled properly because I still got the 'You're running the old version of SPMT" message after running the new program.

But I'm not here for troubleshooting. Sure, it would be nice to not be playing with this disadvantage anymore, but it's not my wish to just add myself to the list of privileged users... what I want is a completely equal playing field for everyone who plays this game, regardless of SPFA membership and SPMT access.

And the design team has done a good job of not giving SPFA members an unfair edge, don't get me wrong. But it makes no sense to work hard at stopping people who pay you from having an unfair edge, then allowing a sanctioned 3rd party program, that not everyone can use, to provide an unfair edge to its users.

[cercel_jr]

I have a very good PC (I played NFSMW and F.E.A.R. on it).

With SPMT there is something else that should be installed, I think it's called "dot framework" and it gives me a windows error...

[sljivovica]

And the design team has done a good job of not giving SPFA members an unfair edge, don't get me wrong. But it makes no sense to work hard at stopping people who pay you from having an unfair edge, then allowing a sanctioned 3rd party program, that not everyone can use, to provide an unfair edge to its users.

I didn't like that I had to install the framework, but that was totally worth it. I agree it gives an advantage over players without SPMT, for sure.

But it is no unfair advantage, because SoccerProject has a link to SPMT in their Tool-section. Everybody surfing the SP-site can find it, and I think that is all we can expect from the game.
Almost every machine can run it, too, and if you have installation-problems, there's a forum here, and SPMT has its own forum, to help you solve that.

Honestly, I don't like that SPMT calculates the Hidden Skill, but that's a different story.

In my opinion, SP should not integrate SPMT-functions in any way.

[Paul_G]

I didn't like that I had to install the framework, but that was totally worth it. I agree it gives an advantage over players without SPMT, for sure.

But it is no unfair advantage, because SoccerProject has a link to SPMT in their Tool-section. Everybody surfing the SP-site can find it, and I think that is all we can expect from the game. Almost every machine can run it, too, and if you have installation-problems, there's a forum here, and SPMT has its own forum, to help you solve that.

Honestly, I don't like that SPMT calculates the Hidden Skill, but that's a different story.

In my opinion, SP should not integrate SPMT-functions in any way.

Of course it's an unfair advantage. This is supposed to be a browser based game... not everyone is going to be able to run SPMT, or necessarily be on a computer where they're willing or able to download .exe files off the internet. It doesn't matter if the tool is public knowledge if a lot of people can't run it, or don't know that it gives you such wide ranging advantages. If 2/3rds of the people who play SP aren't running SPMT (and that's accurate according to KRC), then how does this differ from if SPMT was any other kind of game hacking tool that was only known by a third of the community?

Don't tell me that 2/3rds of the community want to make the game harder for themselves... there has to be other reasons why the tool isn't used by nearly everyone.

As far as SP not implementing these functions, what difference does it make to anyone if those functions are in a 3rd party program, or if they're on the site, where everyone who plays this game can actually use them?

I do agree with you on one point though... if it was up to me, I wouldn't put that stuff on the site either. I'd get rid of the whole SPMT tool and change the in-game code to prevent access. Maybe that would make people (GASP!!) actually have to do a bit of managing for a change.

After all, as Cercel said earlier, the slogan of this game is, 'Can you manage it?... but I don't see any SPMT user being required to actually manage anything if they don't want to, and I can't see how that's good for the game.

[modes98's revenge]

SPMT is an add-on to help you "manage it" (god i hate that slogan)

A slight point that it is known to all the community not 1/3. The fact that they can't run it isn't important thats an issue for them to get around. Same with the firefox training issue, either use a different browser or don't worry about it.

SPMT enhances the options available to managers, it doesn't give them any advantage in the game in theory, a good manager is a good manager...