They already have such limits, but they're way too high.
I would rather see it be possible tor teamspirit to go below 0.
Right now, say an owner like this buys and sells a bunch of players and his teamspirit becomes 0. At this point he no longer pays a penalty for transferring players. So he can buy and sell as much as he wants. So, if someone decides they want to sacrifice a season and make a bunch of money, they can do it with no problem. A 0 teamspirit can be brought back in a season by a very active owner.
But supposing TS can go below zero, and this owner's TS would drop to -300? It would take about a year real time to bring that back. Does anyone think these owners would buy and sell players like that if this were the case?
Less cheating proposal 1
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now the practice of good relation within one country goes to top A division.
honestly, I dont care if some guy earns few millions in H division and this allows him to get to F, E or D ...
what I hate is if the guys from top divisions cheat that they get support from the guys from same country from lower divisions ...
till now I just found guy from C, D and E division cheating in this, but today I catched A division team low money transfer within country
team from A division AAA bought today player XXX for XX.XM in fast transfer from EEE - some lower division player. They both from Belgium.
I contacted EEE to buy the player and I would pay much more then they made transfer - but saving money principle leads to offer last day cheapest.
He refused to speak about any price that he already agreed the price with other team - I got his mail (seems he agreed with AAA). I just made sure the price was at least XX.XM.
I bet, AAA would never get this player for such a small money, not being him his friend - that they from same country.
Pipkin said somewhere, that I should contact the person and offer also this. You cant, while there is no way the guy would sell this player to you, if he already promised to his friend. It is just the way how they get him through market for agreed price. Market just may slightly increase this price, if the player is too good, if there is huge demand, but in reality, noone bids his top in second day of player is in transfer list ... So, it is often not market price if the fast transfer is between players of same country. If the transfer is "non country" often happens that you may pay even more then market price so it is worth to make them ...
I dont have so much time to check this for all players, but now is more less clear, how such a players get to top divisions ... cheating having real players their farms ...
Then hard to beat them
this mail was almsot whole deleted while I put direct names of players and teams ... I am sorry for it ... so I updated with noname XXX AAA and BBB
honestly, I dont care if some guy earns few millions in H division and this allows him to get to F, E or D ...
what I hate is if the guys from top divisions cheat that they get support from the guys from same country from lower divisions ...
till now I just found guy from C, D and E division cheating in this, but today I catched A division team low money transfer within country
team from A division AAA bought today player XXX for XX.XM in fast transfer from EEE - some lower division player. They both from Belgium.
I contacted EEE to buy the player and I would pay much more then they made transfer - but saving money principle leads to offer last day cheapest.
He refused to speak about any price that he already agreed the price with other team - I got his mail (seems he agreed with AAA). I just made sure the price was at least XX.XM.
I bet, AAA would never get this player for such a small money, not being him his friend - that they from same country.
Pipkin said somewhere, that I should contact the person and offer also this. You cant, while there is no way the guy would sell this player to you, if he already promised to his friend. It is just the way how they get him through market for agreed price. Market just may slightly increase this price, if the player is too good, if there is huge demand, but in reality, noone bids his top in second day of player is in transfer list ... So, it is often not market price if the fast transfer is between players of same country. If the transfer is "non country" often happens that you may pay even more then market price so it is worth to make them ...
I dont have so much time to check this for all players, but now is more less clear, how such a players get to top divisions ... cheating having real players their farms ...
Then hard to beat them
this mail was almsot whole deleted while I put direct names of players and teams ... I am sorry for it ... so I updated with noname XXX AAA and BBB
Last edited by Frrfrr on Mon May 07, 2007 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'll be happy to discuss the situation and to even implement a solution if you can find a very good one, but you very well know you are not allowed to publicly accuse anyone.
SoccerProject: Can you manage it ?
Sjarel, I am not sure, if there is some clear, well accepted, not problematic etc ... solution ...
there are many clever people thinking about it and still none has appeared ... I also think about it since we started this discussion but the best I found is, what I proposed.
but it seems we have to sacrify some pluses to eliminate lots minuses.
there are a lot of topics now proposing some change ... so maybe you may choose the best one proposed in various topics you believe it is and implement?
or allow in game "cheating" and make it public, to allow also others to do it this way ... not only successfull ones ...
or wait for best solution ... but may happen it never appears, then implement something or make public is better ...
but honestly, having "cheaters" in A division shows this is not a small issue ... how do you want to beat them in your league? only if you start to do the same ... or then go to B, then C etc ...
there are many clever people thinking about it and still none has appeared ... I also think about it since we started this discussion but the best I found is, what I proposed.
but it seems we have to sacrify some pluses to eliminate lots minuses.
there are a lot of topics now proposing some change ... so maybe you may choose the best one proposed in various topics you believe it is and implement?
or allow in game "cheating" and make it public, to allow also others to do it this way ... not only successfull ones ...
or wait for best solution ... but may happen it never appears, then implement something or make public is better ...
but honestly, having "cheaters" in A division shows this is not a small issue ... how do you want to beat them in your league? only if you start to do the same ... or then go to B, then C etc ...
I'm sure this problem has nothing to do with countries and that these 'deals' also happen between managers from different countries. If we want to solve this, we need to look for a more general solution.
The best solution I can think of for the moment is simply changing the period a player has to be on the transferlist before he can be sold, into 4 days instead of 2 days. This way 40 000 managers all have 2 more days to make a fair bid.
I think however this would dissapoint a lot of managers ...
The best solution I can think of for the moment is simply changing the period a player has to be on the transferlist before he can be sold, into 4 days instead of 2 days. This way 40 000 managers all have 2 more days to make a fair bid.
I think however this would dissapoint a lot of managers ...
SoccerProject: Can you manage it ?
to paraphrase you
I'm sure this problem has nothing to do with the period a player has to be on the transferlist before he can be sold
i think, then you may switch off fast transfer completly ... this would be almost the same ...
but still better then now
what i believe is needed to cancel trades between the friends, farms and people they know each other for non market price - those transfers are not fair. i bet with you over 90% of such transfers are made between teams from 1 country
all the other transfers even when fast transfer should be OK, while both parties believe they do a great business and it is their responsibility for gain/loss. even when one team makes loss and other team gain. those trades are not manipulated or whatever. why this should be stopped ???
can you give me example how "international trades" could be heavilly infected by cheaters?
I'm sure this problem has nothing to do with the period a player has to be on the transferlist before he can be sold
i think, then you may switch off fast transfer completly ... this would be almost the same ...
but still better then now
what i believe is needed to cancel trades between the friends, farms and people they know each other for non market price - those transfers are not fair. i bet with you over 90% of such transfers are made between teams from 1 country
all the other transfers even when fast transfer should be OK, while both parties believe they do a great business and it is their responsibility for gain/loss. even when one team makes loss and other team gain. those trades are not manipulated or whatever. why this should be stopped ???
can you give me example how "international trades" could be heavilly infected by cheaters?
I think just because 2 players are from Belgium, it doesn't mean anything. How many players from Belgium are there playing this game? I agree with your sentiment Frr, but I think focusing on the country of origin isn't the way to fix the problem.
However, the history of this A league team should be checked. If it's apparent that there are lots of deals like this in his history, or if he's dealing repeatedly with the same team, then he needs to be banned just like an H league manager would be... having owners like this at the A level is a big deal.
I've said before that I see no real point in fast transfers, if the buyer is unable to retract his bid. It gets abused by cheaters and it gets abused by dishonest managers who don't follow through with what they say they're going to do.
From what I've read, I'm thinking the best solution might involve something along these lines:
1. Coded minimum and maximum transfer values for each player. Multiple teams could be allowed to bid the maximum value, and the player would then go to the team with the highest contract offer. Also, the very best players could have the ceiling removed and the very worst players could have the floor removed, so that top teams can't just bid the max for every good player and win them.
This is unofficially enforced already by the sheriffs, so nothing will actually change as far as gameplay goes. At the very least, it will save the sheriffs some work.
2. Setting things up somehow that the seller can't choose which buyer gets the player. This is the only way to be fair. If we're playing honestly, the seller shouldn't care who gets his player as long as he gets paid.
3. Changing the time period settings so that all managers have a fair chance to see and bid on the player. I don't think allowing everyone time to see and bid for a player they want is unreasonable by any means.
However, the history of this A league team should be checked. If it's apparent that there are lots of deals like this in his history, or if he's dealing repeatedly with the same team, then he needs to be banned just like an H league manager would be... having owners like this at the A level is a big deal.
I've said before that I see no real point in fast transfers, if the buyer is unable to retract his bid. It gets abused by cheaters and it gets abused by dishonest managers who don't follow through with what they say they're going to do.
From what I've read, I'm thinking the best solution might involve something along these lines:
1. Coded minimum and maximum transfer values for each player. Multiple teams could be allowed to bid the maximum value, and the player would then go to the team with the highest contract offer. Also, the very best players could have the ceiling removed and the very worst players could have the floor removed, so that top teams can't just bid the max for every good player and win them.
This is unofficially enforced already by the sheriffs, so nothing will actually change as far as gameplay goes. At the very least, it will save the sheriffs some work.
2. Setting things up somehow that the seller can't choose which buyer gets the player. This is the only way to be fair. If we're playing honestly, the seller shouldn't care who gets his player as long as he gets paid.
3. Changing the time period settings so that all managers have a fair chance to see and bid on the player. I don't think allowing everyone time to see and bid for a player they want is unreasonable by any means.
At one brief point in the past, America...
At one brief point in the future, the world?
In my opinion, as long as the fast transfers are legal there is nothing to be done about it. Even with 5 days of waiting period, the price will be under the market. Not so under, but still.
I was reading a while ago that sometimes the managers trade players. “ You need my CF, but I need your GK” Everything goes under priced and really fast.
Banning fast transfers still is not an option. Sometimes you need them.
I said it before…maybe if it would be a limit of 5 or 6 fast transfers per season
Anyway the country thing has no sense. I can become german or australian in a sec. Just start another team!
best
I was reading a while ago that sometimes the managers trade players. “ You need my CF, but I need your GK” Everything goes under priced and really fast.
Banning fast transfers still is not an option. Sometimes you need them.
I said it before…maybe if it would be a limit of 5 or 6 fast transfers per season
Anyway the country thing has no sense. I can become german or australian in a sec. Just start another team!
best
It is physically impossible for PIGS, to look up into the sky!
rood you have country in the system in your IP address ... it is not based on your flag or on what you submit you where from
whenever you log in your computer says to server where you from ... so whatever flag you put, system know from which country you. so making another team would mean you again from the same country and system would not allow it ...
whenever you log in your computer says to server where you from ... so whatever flag you put, system know from which country you. so making another team would mean you again from the same country and system would not allow it ...
I know that part of my IP address says where I am from. What I did not know was that the game's engine realizes that. I thought that only recognize the same IP address.
Anyway my opinion is the same. Country does not matter. I am originally from Europe, but I live in Canada. So I have tons of friends in Europe and North America, Asia and Australia. It would not be a problem to ask somebody to open an account in Holland for example. In this case, if I would be the cheater, my partner will be dutch, or American.
Another exemple…Me and Paul_G …I’m from Canada, his is from States…I’m in H league, he is in D or C…don’t know exactly. So I can play the role of the farm for him (Paul being the “farmer” ) without being from the same country. (flag or IP address).
And speaking of that,,, maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think that the nationalistic point of view is so strong in SP. I mean is just a very nice free game, not real soccer…in which case I will not allow the Canadians from my team to play for Pual’s team.
Regards
Anyway my opinion is the same. Country does not matter. I am originally from Europe, but I live in Canada. So I have tons of friends in Europe and North America, Asia and Australia. It would not be a problem to ask somebody to open an account in Holland for example. In this case, if I would be the cheater, my partner will be dutch, or American.
Another exemple…Me and Paul_G …I’m from Canada, his is from States…I’m in H league, he is in D or C…don’t know exactly. So I can play the role of the farm for him (Paul being the “farmer”
) without being from the same country. (flag or IP address).And speaking of that,,, maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think that the nationalistic point of view is so strong in SP. I mean is just a very nice free game, not real soccer…in which case I will not allow the Canadians from my team to play for Pual’s team.
Regards
It is physically impossible for PIGS, to look up into the sky!
OK, I have an idea, maybe not ideal, but more general and maybe solving cheating ... requires a bit more effort to implement. so here is the 1st draft ...
with every sale of the player, the seller would state his selling price as now - regular price. in addition he would post also fast transfer price. so each player would have 2 prices by him.
the player would be sold, if the whole auction expires or on fast transfer.
the seller would not be able to sell it on fast transfer as it is now clicking accept, but with setting up 2nd price he could get pretty fast his player sold in speed up process.
so if noone bids fast transfer price the player would be sold for the price in regular bid after auction expires - as it is now. if noone places bid even there, the player will return to owner. gegular transfer period would be as it is now 6-7 days or so ...
if someone bids for the player fast transfer price, then the player would be sold next day, unless anyone overbid within the day. if there is overbid during the day in this case there are additional 24 hours to make fast transfer. so the process of bidding fast transfer would be the same as it is for regular one but one day before regular sale
there would remain 2 days protection - no transfer policy as it is now, but the player could be sold immediatly after those 2 days and noone had made different bid last 12 hours before end of 2 day protection. if anyone has made overbid of fast transfer price during last 12 hours of protection period, the player would have to wait another day without overbid on fast transfer as was already described
just thinking about it could bring so many new strategies of acquiring players
this way the player would be sold pretty fast for pretty exact market price eliminating friendship low price sales. but of course it is a huge change
with every sale of the player, the seller would state his selling price as now - regular price. in addition he would post also fast transfer price. so each player would have 2 prices by him.
the player would be sold, if the whole auction expires or on fast transfer.
the seller would not be able to sell it on fast transfer as it is now clicking accept, but with setting up 2nd price he could get pretty fast his player sold in speed up process.
so if noone bids fast transfer price the player would be sold for the price in regular bid after auction expires - as it is now. if noone places bid even there, the player will return to owner. gegular transfer period would be as it is now 6-7 days or so ...
if someone bids for the player fast transfer price, then the player would be sold next day, unless anyone overbid within the day. if there is overbid during the day in this case there are additional 24 hours to make fast transfer. so the process of bidding fast transfer would be the same as it is for regular one but one day before regular sale
there would remain 2 days protection - no transfer policy as it is now, but the player could be sold immediatly after those 2 days and noone had made different bid last 12 hours before end of 2 day protection. if anyone has made overbid of fast transfer price during last 12 hours of protection period, the player would have to wait another day without overbid on fast transfer as was already described
just thinking about it could bring so many new strategies of acquiring players
this way the player would be sold pretty fast for pretty exact market price eliminating friendship low price sales. but of course it is a huge change