Youth Investment

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Youth Investment - Do you like this idea or not?

Yes, this is a good idea.
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60%
No, this idea sucks.
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Total votes: 50

Paul_G
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Youth Investment

Post by Paul_G »

Right now, we've got a problem of constantly spiralling inflation in this game. We have new owners coming in who constantly bring an influx of money, and experienced owners with complete stadiums who have nothing to spend on. We're soon going to see top players getting sold for prices like $100 million.

So I propose this as a way to both lower the amount of free money that everyone has in a way that is really useful for the team that's spending it:

We have a youth player fund that can be invested in. For each $1,000,000 invested, the minimum skill value of an incoming youth player is increased by one. So a generated player has a range from 55-100 for skills, right?

With this rule, someone who invests 20 million will create a player whose skills will range from 75-100 instead - someone who will be a very good player, but still not guaranteed to be world class. Plus they could get a sweeper, who as we all know, would be almost a complete waste of money.

We'll set it so that no more than 20 million can be spent in this way per incoming youth, so that there is no guarantee of creating a world class player.

Once your youth team provides you with a player, that bonus is applied and the youth fund goes back to 0. You don't lose your investment if the center doesn't give you a player.
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kjekspakke
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Post by kjekspakke »

I would like to manage my youthteam, like they have implented in HT now.
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Paul_G
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Post by Paul_G »

That would be even better. But wouldn't that double the amount of time it takes to run a sim?
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silverblast
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Post by silverblast »

I believe this is a luxury suggestion...Who will pump 20 million into a player who will eventually perhaps reach the 85%...which is not even worth 20 million if it's not a perfect position.

Now, I always come up with another idea in a suggestion topic which is very annoying for the topic maker... so I'll stick to my habits. :D

I believe it should be possible to send your Youth coordinator on a 'multicultural' trip for, say, 2.000.000€
This way, he will try and discover new talent over the border and thus have a greater chance of discovering better youth players.
You, as the manager, can set the length of this trip.
The longer the trip, the more chance he will find a player, and thus also the better the youth player will be. On the other hand you will have to pay more and you will have to wait longer.
If he brings back no youth player, it's just a loss of money. (so actually it's better if you chose for a long trip)
The youth coordinator: The better your youth coo is, the better the youth player and the more chance he will find a good player. On the other hand, this trip will cost you more when your youth coo is very good.

Structural:
The longer the trip, the better the youth player is.
The longer the trip, the more expensive
The longer the trip, the more chance you have of actually receiving a youth player.
The longer the trip, the longer you have to wait. => During this period, the advantage of having an ultramodern youth center is taken away!
The better your youth coo, the better the youth player is.
The better your youth coo, the more expensive this trip is.
The better your youth coo, the higher the chance is of actually receiving a youth player.

Somehow Paul's suggestion got mixed up in mine, but I believe mine is more realistic... :)
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Paul_G
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Post by Paul_G »

silverblast wrote:I believe this is a luxury suggestion...Who will pump 20 million into a player who will eventually perhaps reach the 85%...which is not even worth 20 million if it's not a perfect position.
You think a player who gets ratings from 75-100 would eventually 'perhaps' top out at 85%? Come on, you're the math guy here! :D

The AVERAGE skill of a player like that would be 87.5. A guy with a GR of 87.5 with 0 experience would be what, about 83? And that player topped out is around 90. And yes, a player who is rated in the upper 80's to 90 is absolutely worth 20 million. I've bought and sold players of that skill level for that much.

But that's not all... you've got a 50% chance of getting a guy better than that. What if you get a guy whose average rating is 90? Which is certainly not unlikely. How much do you think a player like that would be worth? I myself just bought a 22 y/o GK with a rating of 90 for 45 million, and there were other teams who were bidding against me till the end.
silverblast wrote:Now, I always come up with another idea in a suggestion topic which is very annoying for the topic maker... so I'll stick to my habits. :D

I believe it should be possible to send your Youth coordinator on a 'multicultural' trip for, say, 2.000.000€

...
Your suggestion is more realistic, but if it gets implemented the board is going to be inundated with threads like, "I paid all this money and waited all this time, and I didn't get a player!", or, "I paid all this money and waited all this time, and all I have to show for it is a #$!$%^&! sweeper!".

Whereas what I say, WILL reward someone who invests, but it will still be possible to land a player who does top out at 80-85 if you're unlucky, so it's not a guarantee. I think there would be less randomness.

I think your suggestion is good too, but I would rather see someone have to wait 2-3 extra weeks for their player if they are unlucky, rather than not receive a player at all.
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Red_Army_Squad
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Post by Red_Army_Squad »

I like the idea of investing money in a youthplayer. But... Paul's idea is only for the rich -and high ranked- managers. If you will implant this feature it will be difficult for the low ranked teams to get in higher divisions, since they have less money to spend, and the money they spend mostly goes to their stadiums.

Then we have silverblast's idea, which I think is slightly better, but also for the high ranked teams with the same result that promotion will get harder.

I have this idea:
Imagine a manager from F has 10M and a manager from B has 60M (I don't know how much those managers have, cause I am in F). With Paul's idea the manager from B can spend 20M and get a better player, but the manager from F can only spend 5M. Now my idea was that both the managers could spend 10% of their money for 1 point skill raise. So the manager from B will spend 6M and the manager from F 1M. This is of course less fair for the high ranked managers, but they usually have bigger stadiums, more fans etc.
I think this would be fair for all managers in all divisions. And 1 thin I forgot: The managers should have a minimum amount of money left. Let's say 5M? And if you have less money then that, then you should wait.
Paul_G
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Post by Paul_G »

Red_Army_Squad wrote:The managers should have a minimum amount of money left. Let's say 5M? And if you have less money then that, then you should wait.
I do like this... I think the minimum amount of money rule should be applied to a few different things, not just youth investment.

However, I don't like the scaling feature, where you're basically punishing people for being successful. I think the opposite of you in this regard... that moving up leagues doesn't get you enough extra stuff, not that it doesn't get you enough.

I'd like youth investment not just as a way to cut down on inflation, but also for a way to avoid stagnation and boredom for upper league teams, when they're not getting promoted very much and there's not much left to invest in... a scaled system would make this problem worse IMO.
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Red_Army_Squad
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Post by Red_Army_Squad »

Paul_G wrote: However, I don't like the scaling feature, where you're basically punishing people for being successful.
I am not punishing people who are succesfull, I'm just protecting the managers, like myself, who are not succesfull (yet). I am already happy when I can buy a player for 'just' 3M, while you say that you bought a GK for 45M. Ok you woked to deserve so much money, but that shouldn't mean that you have to be more powerfull than managers from lower divisions. I think my idea of the 10% is good for both parties.
Paul_G
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Post by Paul_G »

Red_Army_Squad wrote:Ok you woked to deserve so much money, but that shouldn't mean that you have to be more powerfull than managers from lower divisions.
That's exactly what it should mean. I've been signing on to this game pretty much every day for 2 years. You don't think I should be able to buy a lot more things than someone who has been playing for a month and a half?

And it's not even about time played. It should be about quality of play. I think if a manager gets promoted to C league, even if he's only been playing for half the time that I have, then he should have more money and power than me. That's not how things work right now... these rules that are in place to prevent the higher league teams from getting more money in reality only ensure that the players with the most money are the players who have been playing the longest, with no regard to skill or promotions.

The lower league managers think they're protecting themselves by limiting higher league teams, when in fact they're only helping to keep the current power structure in place.

But I'm getting off topic.

Anyway, if your 10% rule was implemented, I would just drop my bankroll to about 5 million, except when I'm saving up to buy a player. Why not? It would only hurt me to keep large quantities of money laying around. And how would I lower my bankroll? By buying good players, and that's what all the higher league managers would do. So the rule would also make the inflation problem worse. All it would do is make everyones lives harder for no benefit.

The 10% suggestion isn't much different than making players on the transfer list cheaper for people from lower divisions.
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Isis
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Post by Isis »

Paul, I don't agree with yoour starting point: I really don't think that players will be sold for 100M in a few years time. Time has proven the contrary; the most expensive players were sold long ago ....
Another thing I don't agree with: managers with a A / B / C team don't earn easy money! I'm not going to tell you my budget on this forum now (want to have a chance on this player I'm trying to buy), but I'm not rich. I have to pay almost 300k in wages each game. And my stadion is just big enough to pay for that. (Btw, I have been playing this game since the beginning and I don't feel 'protected' in any way ....) The rich managers are managers who play the transfermarket very well: they come in two versions: the money making no good manager (is rich but is stuck in F / E / D forever). I'm not jealous of him to be honest. Wouldn't trade my SP Cup for all of his money. And secondly: the top manager with the huge budget: they are people who spend half their lives on the transfermarket. And do a good job in managing ... I'm not jealous of them either. I think their success is due to hard work and that's why they deserve to have more money than people who send their youthcoordinator on a long trip abroad :roll: (sorry silverblast ;-) )
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Post by Paul_G »

Is that true? Are there no more players being sold for $20 million+ than there were before? Instinctively, that doesn't sound right because surely there are more managers who have money than before.

People place too much emphasis on leagues when talking about money. But they don't understand that from a financial standpoint it makes virtually no difference what league we're in. I'd make roughly the same amount whether I was in A league or H league... 90% of my income comes from transfers and developing players. That's a ratio that I'd like to see get changed.
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Isis
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Post by Isis »

Paul_G wrote:Is that true? Are there no more players being sold for $20 million+ than there were before? Instinctively, that doesn't sound right because surely there are more managers who have money than before.

People place too much emphasis on leagues when talking about money. But they don't understand that from a financial standpoint it makes virtually no difference what league we're in. I'd make roughly the same amount whether I was in A league or H league... 90% of my income comes from transfers and developing players. That's a ratio that I'd like to see get changed.
I'm not good at economy :-s but I know the money would flow easier in A! You would spend more on a player and on wages, but you would probably earn more too (stadium and selling players). So for a manager in A it's easier to go from 0 to 20M. (I guess)
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Post by Michal Kejchal »

Its natural that there are more players being sold for 20M+ than in past. Because the number of managers rises day by day. Relevant comparison is only about quality not quantity (its not impossible but many factors has to be calculated). Compare prices among top transfers only (highest in may 2007, april 2007,... etc.).
Red_Army_Squad
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Post by Red_Army_Squad »

Paul_G wrote: That's exactly what it should mean. I've been signing on to this game pretty much every day for 2 years. You don't think I should be able to buy a lot more things than someone who has been playing for a month and a half?
Yeah I do think that you should be able to buy more things when you have played for a long time and earned much money. But I still think that managers from lower divisions will have a hard time in promoting.
I really like this feature, but there has to be a thing where all managers can benefit from and not only the rich ones.

Maybe an option that allows managers from A division to buy 20 skill points, managers from B 18 ... managers from H 5. So the higher you get in the league the more skill points you can buy.
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Post by Paul_G »

Red_Army_Squad wrote:
Paul_G wrote: That's exactly what it should mean. I've been signing on to this game pretty much every day for 2 years. You don't think I should be able to buy a lot more things than someone who has been playing for a month and a half?
Yeah I do think that you should be able to buy more things when you have played for a long time and earned much money. But I still think that managers from lower divisions will have a hard time in promoting.
I really like this feature, but there has to be a thing where all managers can benefit from and not only the rich ones.

Maybe an option that allows managers from A division to buy 20 skill points, managers from B 18 ... managers from H 5. So the higher you get in the league the more skill points you can buy.
Yeah, I can deal with that. Like maybe have the same rules for everyone, but have the improvement on a sliding scale. So the first point of improvement that you buy would cost 100k, then there's kind of an exponential increase to where the 20th point might cost 8 million or so. And you could go higher than that, too, under those rules, but only if you're willing to pay 12 million or more extra per point or something.

That would be a nice change to the rule, and I think it would help everyone in that event.
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