Rename TeamAgression to TeamEffort and expand functionality

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sljivovica
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Rename TeamAgression to TeamEffort and expand functionality

Post by sljivovica » Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:40 am

Players already have a certain aggression. Coach cannot really change the aggression, but of course they can influence the way the players play.

What the coach can do is say "go full power" or "take it easy, it's just a friendly match"

So a very simple change that I would suggest, is to rename the Team Aggression to Team Effort.

And also, I would like to see a link between the loss of fitness during a match and the effort put in. It simply makes sense. If you take it easy, you waste less energy.

And as the last point, I would like the links between effort-fitness and effort-teamperformance to be exponential, not linear.
Example:
Example of how it is now:
Agression 0% ==> Lineratings 100
Agression 20% ==> Lineratings 103
Agression 40% ==> Lineratings 106
Agression 60% ==> Lineratings 109
Agression 80% ==> Lineratings 112
Agression 100% ==> Lineratings 115

(dummy numbers, but the ratio's are roughly correct) You see it is very linear.
In my proposal, it is like this:

Effort 0% ==> Lineratings 100
Effort 20% ==> Lineratings 105
Effort 40% ==> Lineratings 109
Effort 60% ==> Lineratings 112
Effort 80% ==> Lineratings 114
Effort 100% ==> Lineratings 115

The effect will be, that it will not always be necessary to go 100% aggression/effort, even if the referee allows for it. Because on the negative side you will lose more fitness.

With the proposed system, managers can get almost the same result with much less yellow and red cards, since playing at 80% or 90% effort will get you nearly the same result as 100%, and you will suffer less from suspensions (and new system, also fitness).
This is a good side-effect, because the amount of cards the referees throw over the field in SoccerProject is way over the top.

Playing at 100% will be only for special cases or in the most important matches.

I really believe this change will make SP more realistic.

It's not good for teams with low aggression, including mine, but I'll learn to live with that. I'm sure X-tenzo would kill me if this proposal is implemented, but it will also give him a good new challenge :wink:

What is your opinion??
FC Wageningen
S2: started in E.34
S13 - S19..: B.2
S20..: A!! (12th)
S21 - S22: B.2
S23..: A!! (15e)
S24-26: B.2 (12e)
S27 & onwards: C-division and lower.
Currently (S41): E.45

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OscarCookie
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Post by OscarCookie » Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:34 am

I like this proposal. Well defined and makes the game more exciting!

However, teams with low aggression players, should still have a competitive advantage. Teams have worked hard to achieve this, and their work should still matter.
S1:- S2:3/E34 S3:1/E34 S4:2/D12 S5:2/C4 S6:3/B2 S7:6/B2 S8:2/B2 S9:7/A S10:9/A S11: 9/A S12:12/A S13: 12/B2 S14:1/C5 S15:6/B2 S16:2/B2 S17:7/A S18:16/A
S36: ?/H38

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PipkiN
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Post by PipkiN » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:03 am

Count me in :)
Seems to be logical and adds a new feature - should I play with huge effort now and put some backup players in the next match due to fitness ? Or should I play somewhere around 50% effort to put the same players to the next match, too ?

Nice idea :)
playing in C2
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C.A. Peñarol
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Post by C.A. Peñarol » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:28 am

oh yeah, this gets my vote :D
Manager: Gabriel_

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Season 25 H.720 1st
Season 26 G.240 1st
Season 27 F.80 1st
Season 28 E.27 1st
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Season 31 C.3 1st
Season 32 B.1 2nd
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gazza88
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Post by gazza88 » Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:35 pm

i like the sound of it.
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luko
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Post by luko » Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:08 pm

I think it's a very good idea... the only negative thing I can think of is that then you can't control players with a high agression level and they will be having constantly yellow/red cards while players with low agression wont.

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Paul_G
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Post by Paul_G » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:23 am

I like this idea, but I think that this shouldn't be a replacement for aggression... it should coincide with it.

So you'll have your effort level, and you also can set the hardness of tackling that you want to do as well. This combination will give a team manager a lot of control over how his team performs.

This shouldn't be used to circumvent the over the top card issue. It's plain to see that there are too many cards and this can be fixed by just reducing the amount given. I'm getting a little off topic, but teams that use very hard tackling should receive fewer cards than they do now, but see an increase in the amount of injuries that they both receive and sustain during matches.
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Post by Frrfrr » Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:00 am

Sljivovica>

1. To understand the wording "Team aggression" you meant "Agression" - in match set up, so I assume you want to change this to "Effort" right?

2. you say "I would like to see a link between the loss of fitness during a match and the effort".
This proposal would have huge impact on all matches etc during day etc ... Have you recognised this? You have further proposals how this should work in reality of match set up? WHat should be the further effects?

3. the way you propose the most aggresive players would start to be be playable much more in game then it is now. Even now if you a bit lucky you may gain nice result vs team which is very unagresive.
More times I met the oponent setting in match aggresivity higher then me with players agresivities +80%. In match my player with agresivity 36 got red card and his player with +80% got no yellow card. I believe this is much less real :)

My proposal would be rather different
Effort 0% ==> Lineratings 100
Effort 20% ==> Lineratings 102
Effort 40% ==> Lineratings 104
Effort 60% ==> Lineratings 117
Effort 80% ==> Lineratings 111
Effort 100% ==> Lineratings 115

While if you put only 100% effort you get also in real life the most. If you put 20-40% you get also almost 0 from this :)

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sljivovica
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Post by sljivovica » Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:00 pm

Paul_G wrote:I like this idea, but I think that this shouldn't be a replacement for aggression... it should coincide with it.
Possible, but not necessary in my opinion. If a player puts more effort in winning, his aggression will be more likely to rise towards his personal max aggression. Thus with increasing effort, you don't tell the player to play aggressive, but it will happen automatically.
Paul_G wrote: This shouldn't be used to circumvent the over the top card issue. It's plain to see that there are too many cards and this can be fixed by just reducing the amount given. I'm getting a little off topic, but teams that use very hard tackling should receive fewer cards than they do now, but see an increase in the amount of injuries that they both receive and sustain during matches.
I think it's not that simple. That's also the problem of the current system. People look for a max agression to perform as high as possible, and by simply reducing the amount people will find a new max limit, so the system will be forced to hand out more cards again. I think the problem lies deeper.
FC Wageningen
S2: started in E.34
S13 - S19..: B.2
S20..: A!! (12th)
S21 - S22: B.2
S23..: A!! (15e)
S24-26: B.2 (12e)
S27 & onwards: C-division and lower.
Currently (S41): E.45

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sljivovica
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Post by sljivovica » Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:13 pm

Frrfrr wrote: 1. change aggression to effort
That's right
Frrfrr wrote: 2. you say "I would like to see a link between the loss of fitness during a match and the effort".
This proposal would have huge impact on all matches etc during day etc ... Have you recognised this? You have further proposals how this should work in reality of match set up? WHat should be the further effects?
It wouldn't change that dramatically. You can choose for two systems:
1. League matches are harder on the players than friendlies and friendly cups (just as it is now). This way everybody can still play his friendlies with lots of effort, because the loss of fitness is low anyway. Managers will not suffer much from friendly Cup games, just like it is now.
Things will not change that much practically. Everybody faces the same problem as we do now. Righ now, a Friendly game causes loss of fitness between 1-5%, based on condition and random (?). In future system, you can have it depend on Condition and EFFORT (and also random if you like). I see no problem here.
2. Loss of fitness is depending on effort, it doesn't matter if it's league or friendly. If you send your team out with 100% effort in a friendly, the fitness will go down dramatically, the same as in a league-game.
This way managers will play friendlies and Cups with less effort to save on fitness. Negative: The managers that don't care about the league and only play for money have a big advantage in friendly cups and will win even more money. I don't like that :(
Other negative: beginners may have really big fitness-problems until thet understand what is going on. This could be a problem :?
Apart from the two negative points, I feel more for option 2, but the points could be a big dealbreaker.

Frrfrr wrote: 3. the way you propose the most aggresive players would start to be be playable much more in game then it is now. Even now if you a bit lucky you may gain nice result vs team which is very unagresive.
More times I met the oponent setting in match aggresivity higher then me with players agresivities +80%. In match my player with agresivity 36 got red card and his player with +80% got no yellow card. I believe this is much less real :)
Not sure what you mean....
Frrfrr wrote: My proposal would be rather different
Effort 0% ==> Lineratings 100
Effort 20% ==> Lineratings 102
Effort 40% ==> Lineratings 104
Effort 60% ==> Lineratings 117
Effort 80% ==> Lineratings 111
Effort 100% ==> Lineratings 115
Problem with this: in the way I see it, effort also influence the player's aggression. This way, teams will do everything to go on 100% effort, because the difference in lineratings is so huge. This will cause lots of cards again, and managers will do everything so they can play max effort. In my system managers get almost full results with only 75% effort, resulting in less agression but still keeping most performance.
FC Wageningen
S2: started in E.34
S13 - S19..: B.2
S20..: A!! (12th)
S21 - S22: B.2
S23..: A!! (15e)
S24-26: B.2 (12e)
S27 & onwards: C-division and lower.
Currently (S41): E.45

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