Cheating

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How to counter cheating?

Ebay-style transfer market
26
37%
More powers to administrators
11
16%
Implement both ideas
12
17%
Do nothing, cheating should remain an option
21
30%
 
Total votes: 70

Sjarel
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Post by Sjarel » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:02 pm

@Nosferatul: Your avatar is offensive, remove it asap.

The BIN-price will be publicly available, every manager will be able to make that bid. I just meant that the current bidders will get an extra notification.

I don't see how this will increase the number of cheats with too expensive transfer prices. There is no reason nor benefit for cheaters to use this extra option imho.

I also don't see why you should be afraid a player gets sold while you're offline. That can happen in the current system just as well.
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warchilde
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Post by warchilde » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:04 pm

one answer should make things simpler: this BIN system means as soon as i receive the money the player is automately sold, or the manager still has to release the player?

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C.A. Peñarol
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Post by C.A. Peñarol » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:07 pm

@Sjarel
Because most managers try to keep the bids low the first couple of days, and if the BIN is activated they can sell their player somewhat cheap, straight away after the cooling off period.

And please look back on my last post, i left a question there.

I'm starting not to agree with this idea, sorry.
Manager: Gabriel_

Season 23 G.240 16th
Season 24 H.720 5th
Season 25 H.720 1st
Season 26 G.240 1st
Season 27 F.80 1st
Season 28 E.27 1st
Season 29 D.9 1st
Season 30 C.3 3rd
Season 31 C.3 1st
Season 32 B.1 2nd
Season 33 A.1 ???

zandyy
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Post by zandyy » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:10 pm

C.A. Peñarol wrote:But what if I am the highest bidder of a player, and right after the cooling off period someone else comes along and takes the BIN option while I'm offline?
What’s the difference between the scenario you’re describing and a situation where, how things are now, you are first bidder, cool-down period over, someone outbids you and sellers accepts offer while you’re off-line? Just like it is now, if you really want a player, better go online when his cool-down period’s over.
C.A. Peñarol wrote: I think the 3 highest bidders at the time should be given the option to BIN, not everyone. Otherwise anyone else that isn't even bidding at all can come along and take my precious player.
I agree with you that not everyone should be informed – just the bidders, but I think it should be all bidders, not just the top three. The reason for that is that if it will be just the 3 top bidders that are allowed to participate in the BIN, bidders would drive the price up artificially just before the end of the cool-off period in order to make sure they’re top three.

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warchilde
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Post by warchilde » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:14 pm

zandyy wrote:
C.A. Peñarol wrote:But what if I am the highest bidder of a player, and right after the cooling off period someone else comes along and takes the BIN option while I'm offline?
What�s the difference between the scenario you�re describing and a situation where, how things are now, you are first bidder, cool-down period over, someone outbids you and sellers accepts offer while you�re off-line? Just like it is now, if you really want a player, better go online when his cool-down period�s over.
the difference is that in this BIN system, the player is automaticaly sold as i understood, the manager doesnt have to release the player.

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Post by zandyy » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:16 pm

C.A. Peñarol wrote:Because most managers try to keep the bids low the first couple of days, and if the BIN is activated they can sell their player somewhat cheap, straight away after the cooling off period.?
With the BIN in place, tactics will gradually change and prices will not stay as low as they are during the cool-down period.

Think about the advantages:
This solves cheating
It regulates a very popular way of doing business here anyway – negotiations
It reduces spamming
It adds a new strategic aspect
Average transfer period is likely to go down

And if you don’t like it or it is too complicated for you to take a minute to understand – just don’t activate it. Most won’t anyway.

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warchilde
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Post by warchilde » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:19 pm

zandyy wrote: With the BIN in place, tactics will gradually change and prices will not stay as low as they are during the cool-down period.

Think about the advantages:
This solves cheating
It regulates a very popular way of doing business here anyway � negotiations
It reduces spamming
It adds a new strategic aspect
Average transfer period is likely to go down

And if you don�t like it or it is too complicated for you to take a minute to understand � just don�t activate it. Most won�t anyway.
1.solves cheating how?? it doesn't.
2.negotiations are part of football management. one of the most important parts in football management to be precise.
3. what spam are u refering to?
4.and that would be?? stay online 24/7?
5. if most won't activate it, then why bother implementing????

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Post by zandyy » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:20 pm

warchilde wrote: the difference is that in this BIN system, the player is automaticaly sold as i understood, the manager doesnt have to release the player.
Now, why would that be a problem? If you try to cheat buyers into placing bids you never intend to accept in order to boost your bid, then I can see why this would bother you. Otherwise, if that level of control is really important to you – for example if what you mean is that you want to control the transfer time in order not to lose TS before an important game - then just do not use the BIN system as a seller…

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C.A. Peñarol
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Post by C.A. Peñarol » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:21 pm

zandyy wrote:
C.A. Peñarol wrote:But what if I am the highest bidder of a player, and right after the cooling off period someone else comes along and takes the BIN option while I'm offline?
What’s the difference between the scenario you’re describing and a situation where, how things are now, you are first bidder, cool-down period over, someone outbids you and sellers accepts offer while you’re off-line? Just like it is now, if you really want a player, better go online when his cool-down period’s over.
At least now you have the option to ask for a direct transfer and even counter offer a direct transfer bid from someone else by messages, not too secure when making bids though.

But yeah this would probably make things more secure, but not very balanced in a way that someone could beat you to the BIN before you get online.
Manager: Gabriel_

Season 23 G.240 16th
Season 24 H.720 5th
Season 25 H.720 1st
Season 26 G.240 1st
Season 27 F.80 1st
Season 28 E.27 1st
Season 29 D.9 1st
Season 30 C.3 3rd
Season 31 C.3 1st
Season 32 B.1 2nd
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mosmartin
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Post by mosmartin » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:23 pm

OK, even though I think that changing the system will make the game worse instead of better, it might be treated as a personal opinion.

This would increase transfer prices for all players.

Cheating with the new sistem:
-we all know that 3 days of cooling period for a player is not enough to get that player to it's market value, specially if we consider the fact that a player may enter the market with low morale, high individual order
-both cheating cases will increase and I mean here at players that are bought below their values and players that are bought above their value and the sheriffs won't have anything to do about it.
As a seller you can set a BIN price(lower then the market) or higher then the market. Even if the difference between the market price and the BIN used at a transaction is enormous in this case you can't punish managers anymore.
Because anybody can use the BIN. If I put a huge BIN it's not my fault that someone bids it, I did not voluntary accept it(the case we report now to the sheriffs is someone bids unrealistic on one of our players in order not to get banned). So you can't ban a seller for this, maybe only the buyer and you can't take his money or add a penalty(unless you find of course that both teams belonged to the same manager. This are rules that apply in real life(law,justice) and I think you should also apply them here.

If the BIN is under market value.Even if the difference is huge the seller might not know the prices and any buyer can take advantage by this. In this case you can't add a penalty or reverse transfer to the buyer, because it won't be fair. Everyone is looking for bargains on the TL, if you are not then you aren't a good manager.

Now, with this new rules, some people will figure out how to cheat and you can't do anything against them, like you ban them now. Also I think cheating will grow very fast by having these rules. You don't even need to be online at the same period by doing this and it makes it a lot easier for people that have two teams to make transfers between them.

Anyway, you will probably do whatever you think it's best, but I'm totally against this new system.

PS: I remember reporting someone for buying a player I wanted. The seller told me that the player is not for sale by direct transfer and the next day I saw it sold by direct transfer(exactly when the cooling period ended) for quite a low price. I reported it and he was banned. With this new system you can't ban the guy anymore, you would be stupid even if you report it because you can't even assume anything unlike now.

Once again, what you forget is that in this case the manager would not have to release the player personally, so he can't be made responsible anymore.

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warchilde
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Post by warchilde » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:28 pm

zandyy wrote:
warchilde wrote: the difference is that in this BIN system, the player is automaticaly sold as i understood, the manager doesnt have to release the player.
Now, why would that be a problem? If you try to cheat buyers into placing bids you never intend to accept in order to boost your bid, then I can see why this would bother you. Otherwise, if that level of control is really important to you � for example if what you mean is that you want to control the transfer time in order not to lose TS before an important game - then just do not use the BIN system as a seller�
why would it be a problem???? because you can't outbid anymore

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C.A. Peñarol
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Post by C.A. Peñarol » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:29 pm

mosmartin has some strong points there.

But what if I'm selling a player and i set the BIN at say 3mil, but after the cooling off period the highest bid is over the BIN selected. Now will we be able to adjust the BIN?
Manager: Gabriel_

Season 23 G.240 16th
Season 24 H.720 5th
Season 25 H.720 1st
Season 26 G.240 1st
Season 27 F.80 1st
Season 28 E.27 1st
Season 29 D.9 1st
Season 30 C.3 3rd
Season 31 C.3 1st
Season 32 B.1 2nd
Season 33 A.1 ???

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warchilde
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Post by warchilde » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:33 pm

i think u can set the BIN only after the cool-off period.

but manager mosmartin made it pretty clear why this shouldnt be implemented

zandyy
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Post by zandyy » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:42 pm

I assume that as in the original idea, the BIN price would be cancelled if normal bids cross it. BIN price is only set after the cool-off period ends. But we have to hear from Sjarel. This regarding concern by War Child and Gabriel.

Regarding Mosmartin’s point, at first I thought it was a good point, but at second thought – how is that different than it is now? Now buyers get the ban, right? So that’s how it’s still gonna be. If you’re that inexperienced to pay 20m for a player worth 1m, then you either deserve to be banned, or at least when you’re banned you didn’t lose much because surely you were not in SP for that long to get the market prices that wrong.

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warchilde
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Post by warchilde » Sun Nov 11, 2007 10:48 pm

in this system, seller are the first ones who get banned if they don't notify the sheriffs.
and second, you said it is not different from the curent sistem (although it is). well, if it not different and it just is more complicated, then why use it?

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