Cheating

Here you can talk about wanted and upcoming game features

Moderators: Moderator, Programmer

Locked

How to counter cheating?

Ebay-style transfer market
26
37%
More powers to administrators
11
16%
Implement both ideas
12
17%
Do nothing, cheating should remain an option
21
30%
 
Total votes: 70

User avatar
sljivovica
Member of the Soccer Project Association
Posts: 4424
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:39 pm
Location: Enschede, Nederland
Contact:

Post by sljivovica » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:07 pm

The option to cancel the highest bid brings many problems as well, and is no answer in my opinion.
It can be used to just force other people to bid higher and higher while reducing the risk for you to actually cough up the money.
Two friends can bid big amounts on their players, hope nobody offers more, and if not... take the bid away, no harm done.
This is wrong.
Also, selling managers may anticipate on the highest bid, and bid lots of money on other players at the same time. Not getting the money in the end may get them into financial trouble.

So.. against that proposal.

An automated DA-system could work in my opinion. Pre-fabricated messages that "I am willing to bid xxx, will you do a Direct Accept on that offer?" to which the selling managers has a few standard-reply options like "OK, deal", "no, bid me xxx and it's a deal" or "No, I don't do DA"...
Or something like that :)
FC Wageningen
S2: started in E.34
S13 - S19..: B.2
S20..: A!! (12th)
S21 - S22: B.2
S23..: A!! (15e)
S24-26: B.2 (12e)
S27 & onwards: C-division and lower.
Currently (S41): E.45

zandyy
Team Manager
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:30 pm

Post by zandyy » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:47 pm

Guys,

I accept the point that cancelling a top bid is problematic and can easily be abused.

I like Sljivovica’s idea about having a regulated mechanism for direct transfers, which is similar in essence to my “buy now” idea earlier in this discussion. Can we try on focus on this solution, with people bringing up possible problems with it or further ideas to develop this mechanism?

shoon
Groundsman
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 6:31 pm

Post by shoon » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:20 pm

I like Sljivovica’s idea too so making it a little formal, those are my ideas:

- DA option is only valid after half of duration on market list is expired

- You can only make one DA for a player until the other manager cancel it (like friendly interface)

- It's private not public and should be higer than the top offer of the player (I mean same rules of normal transfers)


PD : Sorry for my english and sorry if I repeated some early ideas is just this topic is becoming too long, maybe we can start a new one?

zandyy
Team Manager
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:30 pm

Post by zandyy » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:08 pm

Trying to combine all ideas:

1. After the initial 2 days of cool-off period (=one player turn green), a new option for “Direct Transfer” would be available (Q: should the default be “DT enabled” or should that option be activated by the seller?).

2. A buyer can issue a DT Request as long as it is X% higher than the current normal bid (Q: my thinking is 20%, any other thoughts?)

3. The DT Request will automatically be cancelled if its price is less than 5% more than current bid.

4. A seller will have three reply options: “Yes”, “No”, and “Yes But”: “Yes” would mean an immediate transfer for the price indicated, just like accepting bids now; “No” will cancel the “DT Request”; “Yes But” will include an alternative price suggested by the seller (Q: maybe it is more simple to have only two options, “Yes” and “No”?)

5. A “DT Request” will be private. I suggest that the price will be private but the fact that the player is under DT negotiations will be public and indicated by an icon – any thoughts? I suggest only one buyer can have DT negotiations with a seller over a specific player, and another DT Request by another buyer can only be issued once the first DT Request was turned down by the seller – any thoughts?

6. I suggest that buyers will be able to cancel their own DT Request if they see it is being abused by a seller.

Advantages:
• Transfer negotiations, which are already common place, will be better regulated. Less cheating potential.
• Dishonest sellers will not be able to trick buyers into placing a higher bid to boost their bid and then fail to accept them.
• The transfer market would become more interesting and complex, with new strategies.

Disadvantages:
• Other buyers, which have missed on the opportunity to enter into official DT negotiations with the seller, would continuously raise the bid until they manage to cancel the DT Request, if they REALLY want the player. This may cause higher prices overall. However, it’s a strategic game, and in a way it makes prices more reflective of real demand.
• This does not solve the problem when a seller urges a buyer to make a DT Request and then fails to accept it.

Any thoughts?

User avatar
C.A. Peñarol
Team President
Posts: 710
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:08 am
Location: Originally from Uruguay.

Post by C.A. Peñarol » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:19 pm

I think the first step is to actually get this into the rules. There are no rules that say "you can't scam another manager over a direct transfer to get your bid up".
Manager: Gabriel_

Season 23 G.240 16th
Season 24 H.720 5th
Season 25 H.720 1st
Season 26 G.240 1st
Season 27 F.80 1st
Season 28 E.27 1st
Season 29 D.9 1st
Season 30 C.3 3rd
Season 31 C.3 1st
Season 32 B.1 2nd
Season 33 A.1 ???

zandyy
Team Manager
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:30 pm

Post by zandyy » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:48 pm

Gabriel,

That’s what I initially asked for, but they said it can’t be added to the rules if it can’t be administered (an approach I do not necessarily agree to). That’s why an automated mechanism that makes it impossible was sought - so that it will not have to be administered.

User avatar
C.A. Peñarol
Team President
Posts: 710
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:08 am
Location: Originally from Uruguay.

Post by C.A. Peñarol » Thu Nov 08, 2007 6:57 pm

Ah i see, my bad.

Since it wouldn't be able to be entirely managed by the sheriffs, I like your compiled ideas to make things automated :)
Manager: Gabriel_

Season 23 G.240 16th
Season 24 H.720 5th
Season 25 H.720 1st
Season 26 G.240 1st
Season 27 F.80 1st
Season 28 E.27 1st
Season 29 D.9 1st
Season 30 C.3 3rd
Season 31 C.3 1st
Season 32 B.1 2nd
Season 33 A.1 ???

Sjarel
Member of the Soccer Project Association
Posts: 6165
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:06 pm

Post by Sjarel » Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:32 pm

Comparing all suggestions made to prevent managers to make false promises of selling a player for a certain price, I think this will be the best solution :

- Extending the 2-day period you cannot sell a player in, to 3 days.
- After 3 days, the seller will have an option to set a Buy-It-Now price which has to be 20% higher than the current highest bid.
- All current bidders will be notified of this Buy-It-Now price.
- If any manager bids this BIN-price, the player will be sold immediately.

It's an option nobody has to use, but when negotiating a direct transfer, it can come in handy.

I don't see any downsides at this time, but maybe you guys can think of some. Don't hesitate to mention them before I start implementing ...
SoccerProject: Can you manage it ?

User avatar
warchilde
Member of the Soccer Project Association
Posts: 2205
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:59 pm
Location: Behind You

Post by warchilde » Sun Nov 11, 2007 2:43 pm

Sjarel wrote:Comparing all suggestions made to prevent managers to make false promises of selling a player for a certain price, I think this will be the best solution :

- Extending the 2-day period you cannot sell a player in, to 3 days.
- After 3 days, the seller will have an option to set a Buy-It-Now price which has to be 20% higher than the current highest bid.
- All current bidders will be notified of this Buy-It-Now price.
- If any manager bids this BIN-price, the player will be sold immediately.

It's an option nobody has to use, but when negotiating a direct transfer, it can come in handy.

I don't see any downsides at this time, but maybe you guys can think of some. Don't hesitate to mention them before I start implementing ...
well, since nobody has to use this option, it's fine...it means direct transfers can be made without setting the BIN-price. right?

about increasing the period for fast transfer, i think this would mean a serious set-back for player bargains. i find the 2 days period perfect as it is.

User avatar
Isis
Member of the Soccer Project Association
Posts: 4702
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 2:41 pm

Post by Isis » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:05 pm

warchilde wrote:
Sjarel wrote:Comparing all suggestions made to prevent managers to make false promises of selling a player for a certain price, I think this will be the best solution :

- Extending the 2-day period you cannot sell a player in, to 3 days.
- After 3 days, the seller will have an option to set a Buy-It-Now price which has to be 20% higher than the current highest bid.
- All current bidders will be notified of this Buy-It-Now price.
- If any manager bids this BIN-price, the player will be sold immediately.

It's an option nobody has to use, but when negotiating a direct transfer, it can come in handy.

I don't see any downsides at this time, but maybe you guys can think of some. Don't hesitate to mention them before I start implementing ...
well, since nobody has to use this option, it's fine...it means direct transfers can be made without setting the BIN-price. right?

about increasing the period for fast transfer, i think this would mean a serious set-back for player bargains. i find the 2 days period perfect as it is.
No, I think he means: nobody has to use BIN procedure, you can also leave the player till the period ends.
Or am I wrong?

User avatar
warchilde
Member of the Soccer Project Association
Posts: 2205
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:59 pm
Location: Behind You

Post by warchilde » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:34 pm

i hope he doesn't mean that...cause if he does, instant transfers are history, since anyone can pay the BIN-price

User avatar
Isis
Member of the Soccer Project Association
Posts: 4702
Joined: Fri May 07, 2004 2:41 pm

Post by Isis » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:46 pm

warchilde wrote:i hope he doesn't mean that...cause if he does, instant transfers are history, since anyone can pay the BIN-price
you mean deals with one manager in particular?

User avatar
mosmartin
Member of the Soccer Project Association
Posts: 1518
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 5:22 pm

Post by mosmartin » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:49 pm

@Sjarel:
I think the TM is perfect as it is and for sure there are more that think this way.

3 days is to much to wait before being able to buy a player.
The buy it now increases cheating like hell.

I don't have too much time but I will develop a litlle later if someone here didn't get the ideas.

User avatar
warchilde
Member of the Soccer Project Association
Posts: 2205
Joined: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:59 pm
Location: Behind You

Post by warchilde » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:50 pm

yes...i mean if i agree over a price with a manager for a certain player, if he has to put the BIN-price, my deal with him is useless since if i am not online at that time someone else can buy that player.
Now, if i agree with a manager for a player, even if someone else gives him the money, the player is not sold and i can increase the offer and still get the player for a good price.

nosferatul
Team Manager
Posts: 187
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 4:12 pm

Post by nosferatul » Sun Nov 11, 2007 5:53 pm

since anyone can pay the BIN-price
the BIN price MUST be higher with at least 20% of the highest offert in that moment.ex:you have a 1 M offert for a player....you want to set the BIN price and that must be min 1,2 M....but you can also put 5M the BIN price....then if nobody pay the BIN price the player stay on TL untill deadline or when you accept an offert.
"Singura garantie in viata este aceea ca nu vei beneficia niciodata de pe urma propriei asigurari de viata"

Locked

Return to “Requested / Upcoming features”