Cheating

[sljivovica]

The option to cancel the highest bid brings many problems as well, and is no answer in my opinion.
It can be used to just force other people to bid higher and higher while reducing the risk for you to actually cough up the money.
Two friends can bid big amounts on their players, hope nobody offers more, and if not... take the bid away, no harm done.
This is wrong.
Also, selling managers may anticipate on the highest bid, and bid lots of money on other players at the same time. Not getting the money in the end may get them into financial trouble.

So.. against that proposal.

An automated DA-system could work in my opinion. Pre-fabricated messages that "I am willing to bid xxx, will you do a Direct Accept on that offer?" to which the selling managers has a few standard-reply options like "OK, deal", "no, bid me xxx and it's a deal" or "No, I don't do DA"...
Or something like that

[zandyy]

Guys,

I accept the point that cancelling a top bid is problematic and can easily be abused.

I like Sljivovica’s idea about having a regulated mechanism for direct transfers, which is similar in essence to my “buy now” idea earlier in this discussion. Can we try on focus on this solution, with people bringing up possible problems with it or further ideas to develop this mechanism?

[shoon]

I like Sljivovica’s idea too so making it a little formal, those are my ideas:

- DA option is only valid after half of duration on market list is expired

- You can only make one DA for a player until the other manager cancel it (like friendly interface)

- It's private not public and should be higer than the top offer of the player (I mean same rules of normal transfers)


PD : Sorry for my english and sorry if I repeated some early ideas is just this topic is becoming too long, maybe we can start a new one?

[zandyy]

Trying to combine all ideas:

1. After the initial 2 days of cool-off period (=one player turn green), a new option for “Direct Transfer” would be available (Q: should the default be “DT enabled” or should that option be activated by the seller?).

2. A buyer can issue a DT Request as long as it is X% higher than the current normal bid (Q: my thinking is 20%, any other thoughts?)

3. The DT Request will automatically be cancelled if its price is less than 5% more than current bid.

4. A seller will have three reply options: “Yes”, “No”, and “Yes But”: “Yes” would mean an immediate transfer for the price indicated, just like accepting bids now; “No” will cancel the “DT Request”; “Yes But” will include an alternative price suggested by the seller (Q: maybe it is more simple to have only two options, “Yes” and “No”?)

5. A “DT Request” will be private. I suggest that the price will be private but the fact that the player is under DT negotiations will be public and indicated by an icon – any thoughts? I suggest only one buyer can have DT negotiations with a seller over a specific player, and another DT Request by another buyer can only be issued once the first DT Request was turned down by the seller – any thoughts?

6. I suggest that buyers will be able to cancel their own DT Request if they see it is being abused by a seller.

Advantages:
• Transfer negotiations, which are already common place, will be better regulated. Less cheating potential.
• Dishonest sellers will not be able to trick buyers into placing a higher bid to boost their bid and then fail to accept them.
• The transfer market would become more interesting and complex, with new strategies.

Disadvantages:
• Other buyers, which have missed on the opportunity to enter into official DT negotiations with the seller, would continuously raise the bid until they manage to cancel the DT Request, if they REALLY want the player. This may cause higher prices overall. However, it’s a strategic game, and in a way it makes prices more reflective of real demand.
• This does not solve the problem when a seller urges a buyer to make a DT Request and then fails to accept it.

Any thoughts?

[C.A. Peñarol]

I think the first step is to actually get this into the rules. There are no rules that say "you can't scam another manager over a direct transfer to get your bid up".

[zandyy]

Gabriel,

That’s what I initially asked for, but they said it can’t be added to the rules if it can’t be administered (an approach I do not necessarily agree to). That’s why an automated mechanism that makes it impossible was sought - so that it will not have to be administered.

[C.A. Peñarol]

Ah i see, my bad.

Since it wouldn't be able to be entirely managed by the sheriffs, I like your compiled ideas to make things automated

[Sjarel]

Comparing all suggestions made to prevent managers to make false promises of selling a player for a certain price, I think this will be the best solution :

- Extending the 2-day period you cannot sell a player in, to 3 days.
- After 3 days, the seller will have an option to set a Buy-It-Now price which has to be 20% higher than the current highest bid.
- All current bidders will be notified of this Buy-It-Now price.
- If any manager bids this BIN-price, the player will be sold immediately.

It's an option nobody has to use, but when negotiating a direct transfer, it can come in handy.

I don't see any downsides at this time, but maybe you guys can think of some. Don't hesitate to mention them before I start implementing ...

[warchilde]

Comparing all suggestions made to prevent managers to make false promises of selling a player for a certain price, I think this will be the best solution :

- Extending the 2-day period you cannot sell a player in, to 3 days.
- After 3 days, the seller will have an option to set a Buy-It-Now price which has to be 20% higher than the current highest bid.
- All current bidders will be notified of this Buy-It-Now price.
- If any manager bids this BIN-price, the player will be sold immediately.

It's an option nobody has to use, but when negotiating a direct transfer, it can come in handy.

I don't see any downsides at this time, but maybe you guys can think of some. Don't hesitate to mention them before I start implementing ...

well, since nobody has to use this option, it's fine...it means direct transfers can be made without setting the BIN-price. right?

about increasing the period for fast transfer, i think this would mean a serious set-back for player bargains. i find the 2 days period perfect as it is.

[Isis]

Comparing all suggestions made to prevent managers to make false promises of selling a player for a certain price, I think this will be the best solution :

- Extending the 2-day period you cannot sell a player in, to 3 days.
- After 3 days, the seller will have an option to set a Buy-It-Now price which has to be 20% higher than the current highest bid.
- All current bidders will be notified of this Buy-It-Now price.
- If any manager bids this BIN-price, the player will be sold immediately.

It's an option nobody has to use, but when negotiating a direct transfer, it can come in handy.

I don't see any downsides at this time, but maybe you guys can think of some. Don't hesitate to mention them before I start implementing ...

well, since nobody has to use this option, it's fine...it means direct transfers can be made without setting the BIN-price. right?

about increasing the period for fast transfer, i think this would mean a serious set-back for player bargains. i find the 2 days period perfect as it is.

No, I think he means: nobody has to use BIN procedure, you can also leave the player till the period ends.
Or am I wrong?

[warchilde]

i hope he doesn't mean that...cause if he does, instant transfers are history, since anyone can pay the BIN-price

[Isis]

i hope he doesn't mean that...cause if he does, instant transfers are history, since anyone can pay the BIN-price

you mean deals with one manager in particular?

[mosmartin]

@Sjarel:
I think the TM is perfect as it is and for sure there are more that think this way.

3 days is to much to wait before being able to buy a player.
The buy it now increases cheating like hell.

I don't have too much time but I will develop a litlle later if someone here didn't get the ideas.

[warchilde]

yes...i mean if i agree over a price with a manager for a certain player, if he has to put the BIN-price, my deal with him is useless since if i am not online at that time someone else can buy that player.
Now, if i agree with a manager for a player, even if someone else gives him the money, the player is not sold and i can increase the offer and still get the player for a good price.

[nosferatul]

since anyone can pay the BIN-price

the BIN price MUST be higher with at least 20% of the highest offert in that moment.ex:you have a 1 M offert for a player....you want to set the BIN price and that must be min 1,2 M....but you can also put 5M the BIN price....then if nobody pay the BIN price the player stay on TL untill deadline or when you accept an offert.